Q7 mk ii

[turntable]

Originally Posted by TOGA

What I am thinking is, there are many ways to improve the system with $44,000.
What would be the most optimum way.
If I sold both ARC Ref40 and Gryphon Mephisto to get Soulution 711+725. But what do my current amp/preamp done wrong ? No.. So there is not a reason to sell them.
or to upgrade to Q7 MK II. or to upgrade cables to Transparent Opus Gen V.
I asked Mr Wolf once is there any way to upgrade tweeter in Q7 to be the new diamond one like M Project , he replied " no" because of the difference in size. I was disappointed.
But now he manages to do that, I'm glad. But the cost and procedure seems totally prohibitive to me.
a 20,000$ with a kit/tools that can be done locally by trained dealer then I'm in !
but 44,000$ and have to ship them back to factory and return all old drivers/xover seems too much for me. But I admit I really want to upgrade but I just can't.
Toga

Oh BTW, Charles, my new subs are a pair of Martin Logan Balanced Force 212.

WOW. 20k for a set of tweeters. I thought the 44k was high for the full upgrade.
Magico are doing themselves no favors by treating their high end customers like this.

I hope they reconsider their position

[CLEE]

At such level, I wouldn't trust my dealer to do the upgrade as they wouldn't have the right equipment to ensure the upgraded speaker is at the level of the Mk II. The shipping is a nuisance, but I suppose the dealer can help here.

I wish Magico will offer an upgrade path for S5 if and when an Mk II comes around.

[cmarin]

Originally Posted by turntable

WOW. 20k for a set of tweeters. I thought the 44k was high for the full upgrade. Magico are doing themselves no favors by treating their high end customers like this. I hope they reconsider their position

Turntable, I respectfully disagree with your implication that Magico is mistreating their clients.

First, the $44,000 upgrade cost is precisely the increase in retail price between the Q7 mkii ($227,000) and the Q7 mki ($185,000). If Magico were to say that the upgrade was significantly higher than $44,000 then we could start to consider you point.

Second, Magico could have chosen not to offer the upgrades at all. This in my view could have easily been an option for Magico. If that had been the case, then I can see where you could make an argument that it would be an unfair treatment of their current customers. But Magico did not make that choice. They did chose to offer the upgrade path to existing customers .


Third, you could argue that the cost of the upgrade is excessive from a cost of production perspective. The $44k cost is for the new tweeter, midrange and crossover. I for one do not know what Magico's production costs are actually. I do know that their R&D efforts are among the highest quality in the audio industry and that they need to amortize their costs over a small number of production units.

Third, you can argue that the value of the upgrade is excessive. That is subjective and I would argue speculative at best. I doubt many of us have heard the Q7 mkii and much less both the Q7 mkii and mki at the same time. I have not. A trusted friend and industry expert has owned the Q7 mki and recently heard the mkii with the Soulution 701/725 combo over an extended listening period in a treated listening room. His assessment was that the improvement in performance provided by the mkii was revelatory. In his opinion, the mkii provides an unprecedented level of musical realism above and beyond that of other speakers and the mki. And the mki is no slouch.

Finally, you could also argue that you can get a better improvement in audio performance by investing in other ways. You could easily use the $44k in other audio improvements: Half of a 701 Soulution mono, two or three high end cables, a new DAC/pre, room improvements among others. But ultimately, the improvement they bring to your system is very specific to your system and personal taste. You can make a case that $44k is better spent on other items. But in my case, based on the opinion of a trusted friend and audio expert, moving up to the mkii makes sense.

I respect your opinion but happen to disagree that Magico has not treated their customers fairly. I for one am glad that Magico has offered an upgrade path for its current Q7 customers. Without the upgrade path offered by Magico, the cost of the mkii would be significantly higher, if not prohibitive, as I would have to sell my mki and then purchase a new mkii.

[TOGA]

@cmarin

I am totally agree with you that the fact that the MK I is upgradable is really
a great offer. the time and labor involved is extensive.
What I look different is that, the upgrade cost doesn't have to be the same as
MK II - Mk I MSRP. It should be much less, the cost of manufacturing the whole Q7
must have gone up a lot since introduction, so it make sense that MK II has to be 44,000$ more. But as we, MK I owner, don't need the whole new cabinet and woofers, casters, crates, and still, we have to return the MK I drivers, crossover to the factory too, these parts should worth some $$$. They don't built the upgraded speakers from the ground up, it should cost less than $44,000. But this is a voice from a man who can't afford the upgrade. It means nothing anyway.

Toga

[cmarin]

Originally Posted by TOGA

@cmarin I am totally agree with you that the fact that the MK I is upgradable is really a great offer. the time and labor involved is extensive. What I look different is that, the upgrade cost doesn't have to be the same as MK II - Mk I MSRP. It should be much less, the cost of manufacturing the whole Q7 must have gone up a lot since introduction, so it make sense that MK II has to be 44,000$ more. But as we, MK I owner, don't need the whole new cabinet and woofers, casters, crates, and still, we have to return the MK I drivers, crossover to the factory too, these parts should worth some $$$. They don't built the upgraded speakers from the ground up, it should cost less than $44,000. But this is a voice from a man who can't afford the upgrade. It means nothing anyway. Toga

Good point Toga. I do know, however, that in some cases the cost of rehabbing a piece of equipment is more expensive than simply building the equipment from scratch. But your point on the salvage value of the old components is well taken.

[turntable]

Originally Posted by cmarin

Turntable, I respectfully disagree with your implication that Magico is mistreating their clients.

First, the $44,000 upgrade cost is precisely the increase in retail price between the Q7 mkii ($227,000) and the Q7 mki ($185,000). If Magico were to say that the upgrade was significantly higher than $44,000 then we could start to consider you point.

Second, Magico could have chosen not to offer the upgrades at all. This in my view could have easily been an option for Magico. If that had been the case, then I can see where you could make an argument that it would be an unfair treatment of their current customers. But Magico did not make that choice. They did chose to offer the upgrade path to existing customers .


Third, you could argue that the cost of the upgrade is excessive from a cost of production perspective. The $44k cost is for the new tweeter, midrange and crossover. I for one do not know what Magico's production costs are actually. I do know that their R&D efforts are among the highest quality in the audio industry and that they need to amortize their costs over a small number of production units.

Third, you can argue that the value of the upgrade is excessive. That is subjective and I would argue speculative at best. I doubt many of us have heard the Q7 mkii and much less both the Q7 mkii and mki at the same time. I have not. A trusted friend and industry expert has owned the Q7 mki and recently heard the mkii with the Soulution 701/725 combo over an extended listening period in a treated listening room. His assessment was that the improvement in performance provided by the mkii was revelatory. In his opinion, the mkii provides an unprecedented level of musical realism above and beyond that of other speakers and the mki. And the mki is no slouch.

Finally, you could also argue that you can get a better improvement in audio performance by investing in other ways. You could easily use the $44k in other audio improvements: Half of a 701 Soulution mono, two or three high end cables, a new DAC/pre, room improvements among others. But ultimately, the improvement they bring to your system is very specific to your system and personal taste. You can make a case that $44k is better spent on other items. But in my case, based on the opinion of a trusted friend and audio expert, moving up to the mkii makes sense.

I respect your opinion but happen to disagree that Magico has not treated their customers fairly. I for one am glad that Magico has offered an upgrade path for its current Q7 customers. Without the upgrade path offered by Magico, the cost of the mkii would be significantly higher, if not prohibitive, as I would have to sell my mki and then purchase a new mkii.

I respect your opinion as well. I applaud Magico in making the upgrade available for the first time on any of their speakers - it is the way they have brought it to market I have issues with.

Correct me if I get anything wrong. Mk2 is now 44k more expensive.

For a new mk2 you get new tweeters, mid range, modified xover. These 3 things the y are charging a premium of 44 k
The front bezel change is just a production line change - not anything difficult.

The 44k more for mk2 is not linked to production costs. Linked to R&D and additional profit imo.

That the upgrade and mk2 costs are the same reflects that the upgrade cost confirns it has nothing to do with cost multiples to come to a retail price.

If I was in the market, I would be wondering how a new mk2 was 44k higher outside of more profit to Magico and dealer.

Ps- Togo is a Q7 owner and he has some of the sane reservations I have detailed.

Cheers

[cmarin]

Turntable,

Let me see if I can respond to your specific points:

"Correct me if I get anything wrong. Mk2 is now 44k more expensive."
Ans: Correct

"For a new mk2 you get new tweeters, mid range, modified xover. These 3 things the y are charging a premium of 44 k"
Ans: Correct

"The front bezel change is just a production line change - not anything difficult."
Ans: I don't know.

"The 44k more for mk2 is not linked to production costs. Linked to R&D and additional profit imo."

Ans: I'm not privy to Magico's operating or profit structure. But I don't see how any manufacturer can set the price of a component without considering the production cost among many other variables.

"That the upgrade and mk2 costs are the same reflects that the upgrade cost confirns it has nothing to do with cost multiples to come to a retail price."

Ans: I don't know, but I would think that the decision by Magico to set the upgrade cost at the same net price as a new mkii has as much to do with appeasing both current mki owners and future mkii owners, as well as insuring a steady demand for the mkii. I am very pleased that Magico has taken into consideration the concerns of current mki owners. That hasn't always been the case in the past.

"If I was in the market, I would be wondering how a new mk2 was 44k higher outside of more profit to Magico and dealer."

Ans: I believe in profit and capitalism. And I don't begrudge a manufacturer's profit. It's up to the manufacturer to try set the profit; and it's up to the market to determine if it's too low or too high. I happen to believe, based on the direct and extended experience of a trusted friend and adviser with both the mkii and the mki and the Soulution 711/725 combo, that the benefit of the upgrade to me outweighs the cost to me. And I hope that Magico is making sufficient profit to insure that they will continue to develop state-of-the-art products; continue to offer upgrades; and continue to be around if my speakers need service in the future.


Ps- Togo is a Q7 owner and he has some of the sane reservations I have detailed.

Ans - For what it's worth, I have the Q7 mki with the 711/725 combo. And I have signed up for the upgrade.

[TOGA]

Originally Posted by cmarin

And I have signed up for the upgrade.

Congrats, what a lucky guy. Toga.
I checked, two way transportation by air alone is already 17,000$.

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by TOGA

Congrats, what a lucky guy. Toga.
I checked, two way transportation by air alone is already 17,000$.

Coach or First Class?

[cmarin]

Originally Posted by TOGA

Congrats, what a lucky guy. Toga. I checked, two way transportation by air alone is already 17,000$.

Thanks Toga. Appreciate the kind comments. Luckily I'm closer. Two way freight for me is an order of magnitude less.