A Systemic Approach to Power + a Question

[AVphile]

I want to apologize to those who might have seen a slight variation to this posting previously on Cables Galore. At the time, I did not realize there was a forum dedicated specifically to Shunyata Research -- which, therefore, is a more appropriate site for the following query. On Cables Galore, the discussion quickly migrated to an exchange of thoughts regarding a power amplifier in use by one of the posters. Accordingly, I decided to repost what I hope will stimulate an interesting conversation here.

When I first read about the new Venom NR-V10 power cord, I thought it would be a wonderful complement to my Denali 6000S; in addition, at $450, it represents a huge cost savings over the Delta NR power cord. (Currently, I am using a Venom HC (w/CR19 connector) between the wall outlet and my Denali 6000/S.) But then I began to wonder -- in terms of overall incremental improvement -- whether it might be wiser to invest those dollars in the purchase of two Venom 14 power cords which would replace two less sophisticated power cords -- made by other cable manufacturers -- I am currently using for the connection between those source components and the Denali 6000/S? (Moreover, I cannot use the Venom HC anywhere else in my system because of its CR19 connector.)

This question, consequently, raises the overall issue of how best to handle the filtration and distribution of power throughout a mid-high to high-end audio system when budgetary constraints preclude the ultimate solution of Denalis plus Sigma and Alpha NR power cords everywhere. Given the newly introduced Venom-level power cords, the available options have expanded considerably. Besides seeking an answer to my specific question ending the previous paragraph, I thought it might be interesting and useful to encourage the sharing by others as to how they have handled power filtration and distribution throughout their systems, especially when cost became a consideration.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by AVphile

I want to apologize to those who might have seen a slight variation to this posting previously on Cables Galore. At the time, I did not realize there was a forum dedicated specifically to Shunyata Research -- which, therefore, is a more appropriate site for the following query. On Cables Galore, the discussion quickly migrated to an exchange of thoughts regarding a power amplifier in use by one of the posters. Accordingly, I decided to repost what I hope will stimulate an interesting conversation here.

When I first read about the new Venom NR-V10 power cord, I thought it would be a wonderful complement to my Denali 6000S; in addition, at $450, it represents a huge cost savings over the Delta NR power cord. (Currently, I am using a Venom HC (w/CR19 connector) between the wall outlet and my Denali 6000/S.) But then I began to wonder -- in terms of overall incremental improvement -- whether it might be wiser to invest those dollars in the purchase of two Venom 14 power cords which would replace two less sophisticated power cords -- made by other cable manufacturers -- I am currently using for the connection between those source components and the Denali 6000/S? (Moreover, I cannot use the Venom HC anywhere else in my system because of its CR19 connector.)

This question, consequently, raises the overall issue of how best to handle the filtration and distribution of power throughout a mid-high to high-end audio system when budgetary constraints preclude the ultimate solution of Denalis plus Sigma and Alpha NR power cords everywhere. Given the newly introduced Venom-level power cords, the available options have expanded considerably. Besides seeking an answer to my specific question ending the previous paragraph, I thought it might be interesting and useful to encourage the sharing by others as to how they have handled power filtration and distribution throughout their systems, especially when cost became a consideration.

Hi AV,

I think it was a good idea to re-post your question here.

The #1 top functional requirement for a power distributor is to provide dynamic transient current delivery (DTCD). While noise reduction is also important, it is secondary to DTCD in terms of overall priority. Given that you have a Denali 6000/S, which provides both excellent DTCD *and* about 60dB of noise reduction (which is superb), and the Denali also provides CCI for isolating your components from each other, and given you're already using an excellent high current power cord that supports DTCD for your Denali at a high level of performance, if it were me, I would put your budgets/funds to those other components that are presently using lesser power cords, in other words, Venom 14s for those less-used components. Because with those generic cords right now would be (significantly) limited in their DTCD capability, the Venom 14s would bring a notable degree of improvement. Yes, you could get a new Venom NR-V10 and that would further reduce the noise floor of your Denali, but those lesser-used components would still be "choked" with respect to their current delivery needs.

Also, if one of these is a digital component, my understanding is that Shunyata will soon be releasing a new Venom 14 Digital that will sell for ~$195 that will also provide noise reduction specifically designed for digital components, disc drives, power supplies, etc. So, you'll get the best of both worlds.

The Venom 14, though, brings excellent performance for money; I use a C7 V14 for my Mac Mini, and a C13 for powering my Uptone Audio LPS-1.2.

I'd look to Caelin or Grant to provide additional specifics; hope this was helpful.

[CGabriel]

It all sounds right to me PumaCat. And the Venom V14 Digital is now available for orders. There are no dealers that have them in stock yet - but I a little birdie that knows how to get them ordered in short order. We should have it up on the website in the near future.

If you have an (integrated) amp and intend to replace the power cord I would spend a little more to get the Venom NR-12 or V10 model. The difference is NOT subtle.

[kennyb123]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Also, if one of these is a digital component, my understanding is that Shunyata will soon be releasing a new Venom 14 Digital that will sell for ~$195 that will also provide noise reduction specifically designed for digital components, disc drives, power supplies, etc. So, you'll get the best of both worlds.

The Venom 14, though, brings excellent performance for money; I use a C7 V14 for my Mac Mini, and a C13 for powering my Uptone Audio LPS-1.2.

I'm wondering if there's a worthwhile bump in performance going from Venom 14 to the new Venom 14 Digital. I not too long ago purchased two V14s with C7 connectors; one for the SMPS powering my Chord Hugo M-Scaler and the other for the SMPS powering my Chord Hugo TT2. They each have a Zone to themselves on my Denali v1, so would there be any additional benefit from the NR in the new Venom 14 Digital ?

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by kennyb123

I'm wondering if there's a worthwhile bump in performance going from Venom 14 to the new Venom 14 Digital. I not too long ago purchased two V14s with C7 connectors; one for the SMPS powering my Chord Hugo M-Scaler and the other for the SMPS powering my Chord Hugo TT2. They each have a Zone to themselves on my Denali v1, so would there be any additional benefit from the NR in the new Venom 14 Digital ?

From what I've heard about the performance and attributes of the new Venom 14 Digital, I would say Yes.

But, if possible, I would also really recommend replacing the SMPS' powering your Hugo and M-scaler with linear power supplies. Even the Jameco Reliapro regulated linear power supplies would be an improvement, and they typically range in the price of $10.95 to $14.95. Just search for Jameco Electronics, they ship out fast and have excellent customer support.

The dreaded SMPS wreak all sorts of havoc with respect to audio quality for digital systems, not the least of which are the insidious high-impedance AC leakage currents, which can pass all the way down your chain to your DAC, and cause jitter and clock phase noise.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

The dreaded SMPS wreak all sorts of havoc with respect to audio quality for digital systems, not the least of which are the insidious high-impedance AC leakage currents, which can pass all the way down your chain to your DAC, and cause jitter and clock phase noise.

Just make sure you don't settle for any LPS assuming it will solve all of your issues. I tried one LPS that sounded rather thick and went immediately back to the SMPS that came with the device.

[kennyb123]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

But, if possible, I would also really recommend replacing the SMPS' powering your Hugo and M-scaler with linear power supplies. Even the Jameco Reliapro regulated linear power supplies would be an improvement, and they typically range in the price of $10.95 to $14.95. Just search for Jameco Electronics, they ship out fast and have excellent customer support.

The dreaded SMPS wreak all sorts of havoc with respect to audio quality for digital systems, not the least of which are the insidious high-impedance AC leakage currents, which can pass all the way down your chain to your DAC, and cause jitter and clock phase noise.

I’m reluctant to do that for a few reasons. First off, using anything other than the stock power supplies will void the warranty. And secondly, those with ears I trust have reported that it takes a spectacular linear power supply to improve upon the stock supplies. See the power supplies section of this excellent review for example: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revie...ugo-tt-2-r781/

The SR7 is pretty much unobtainable at this point. I do have an Uptone JS-2 that I could try and I could even have it converted to the recommended 15V. But then again there’s the issue of the warranty. Also - and more importantly - I hear nothing that suggests that Rob Watts didn’t properly implement these SMPS. My system’s noise floor has never been lower and the music has never sounded as natural and free from harshness and grain. It seems to me I’d be better off selling the JS-2 and applying the funds to something else - like maybe something like the new Alpha Ethernet - or maybe even to a swap to the Sigma USB. Methinks those moves are likely to deliver a bigger bang for the buck.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by kennyb123

I’m reluctant to do that for a few reasons. First off, using anything other than the stock power supplies will void the warranty. And secondly, those with ears I trust have reported that it takes a spectacular linear power supply to improve upon the stock supplies. See the power supplies section of this excellent review for example: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/revie...ugo-tt-2-r781/

The SR7 is pretty much unobtainable at this point. I do have an Uptone JS-2 that I could try and I could even have it converted to the recommended 15V. But then again there’s the issue of the warranty. Also - and more importantly - I hear nothing that suggests that Rob Watts didn’t properly implement these SMPS. My system’s noise floor has never been lower and the music has never sounded as natural and free from harshness and grain. It seems to me I’d be better off selling the JS-2 and applying the funds to something else - like maybe something like the new Alpha Ethernet - or maybe even to a swap to the Sigma USB. Methinks those moves are likely to deliver a bigger bang for the buck.

Hi Kenny,

Yeah, the reason I recommended the Jameco LPS is they are dirt cheap, and its an easy experiment to try out if you were so inclined.

But, it sounds like you've got it sussed. And, if you're not using the JS2, you may as well sell it and put those funds to better use in the ways you've mentioned.

Cheers.

[kennyb123]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Yeah, the reason I recommended the Jameco LPS is they are dirt cheap, and its an easy experiment to try out if you were so inclined.

The Jameco LPS are generally a very good recommendation - particularly with networking gear like switches and FMCs. You are correct that they are cheap enough to be easy experiments.

[AVphile]

I dislike hijacking my own original post, but I bought a Tedde Pardo linear power supply when I purchased a Roon Nucleus+. I also bought Venom 14s to connect the Tedde Pardo LPS and the Nucleus+ to my Denali 6000/S as well as a Venom HDMI cable to connect the Nucleus+ to my Theta Casablanca IV preamp/processor. All I can say is the streamed Tidal tracks sound remarkably musical. I, therefore, can vouch that the 19V/4.3A Tedde Pardo (@$495), while expensive, is truly an outstanding linear power supply and well worth consideration..