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  #11  
Old 09-08-2019, 06:02 AM
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jimtranr or Puma Cat, I am curious. How flexible are these Venom NR cords and, other than gauge, are there any differences between the v10 and v12? I was a bit surprised to see a 10-gauge cord used on a DAC, a rather small component.

I haven't had much interest in pursuing the power cord upgrade to my preamp I'd been mulling over for a while; in fact, due to schedule and lack of will, my living room still hasn't been put back together a month and a half (!) after a new air conditioner was installed. I have no access to the system and so haven't listened to it for over two months (and haven't missed it as much as one might think, btw). But jimtranr's enthusiastic review of the NR v10 may rekindle my earlier interest in that preamp upgrade. I was kicking around whether I should get the NR v12 (thinking that would be enough) or a Transparent Premium, which is only $9 more after Transparent's upgrade program. Both offer noise reduction, which I haven't considered a system problem, but I never know what having a noise-reducing PC might do. I have a Transparent HPPC on my preamp now, which is shielded but doesn't do noise reduction.

The network module on the Transparent does other things besides noise reduction, though I don't know exactly what ("among other things" is how Transparent put it). The Venom looks cool, though, and I don't necessarily have to be a completist, as all other power cords in the system are Transparent except one. So if either of you guys have insights that you could share it might be helpful once I decide to go for the change to my preamp PC.
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2019, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post
jimtranr or Puma Cat, I am curious. How flexible are these Venom NR cords and, other than gauge, are there any differences between the v10 and v12? I was a bit surprised to see a 10-gauge cord used on a DAC, a rather small component.
In both its wall-outlet-to-Hydra and Hyrdra-to-DAC applications, the Venom NR v10 is flexible enough that I don't have to subject it to the no-no of anything close to a 90-degree bend. That's required a bit of creative cable routing, but nothing I consider onerous.

As for the DAC, the UD-501 is neither "small" at 11-1/2" wide x 8-1/2" deep nor lightweight (I'd swear that TEAC filled it with lead shot), so the NR 10's relative "pulling" heft isn't sufficient to dislodge or even skew it from its perch atop four Stillpoints Ultra Minis.

I can't speak to the difference between the 10 and 12, as I haven't auditioned the latter, but if your DAC is what you consider a "small featherweight", the 12 might be the better option.

If my "preamp" weren't a passive and provided for AC connection via an aftermarket power cord, I wouldn't hesitate to order a Venom NR v10 for it. The more I listen. the more I'm head-shakingly impressed (I'm sure Stephen would substitute "gobsmacked") by the shocking magnitude of improvement those PCs (and the USB Alpha) have conferred on what is a fairly modest system largely cobbled together from used and "customer-return" equipment.
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Living Room: Win 10 AMD A12 laptop/JRiver Media Center 25 audio player; Uptone Audio ISO REGEN powered by LPS 1.2 Ultra Cap supply; TEAC UD-501 DAC; upgraded SOTA Sapphire III; Origin Live Encounter Mk3c/Ortofon 2M Black, Graham Slee Era Gold V; McIntosh MR77; Oppo BDP-83; conrad johnson Premier 17LS (6922EH); conrad-johnson MF2500; Paradigm SE-3. Wireworld Starlight 7 USB (laptop to ISO REGEN); Wireworld Eclipse 7 (UD-501 to 17LS & 17LS-to-MF2500) and Equinox 6 ICs, Blue Jeans/Belden 5T00UP SC. PS Audio Dectet, Wireworld Electra 7 PCs (PR17LS, Dectet) & Electra 5/2 (wall to Dectet and to Sony Bravia 40" flatscreen), Hubbell HBL5362 duplex outlet. GIK standard 244, scatter-plate 244, and Monster panel traps.

Home Office: Win 10 HP PC/JRiver Media Center 25 audio player; Uptone Audio REGEN w/ LPS-1 linear power supply; TEAC UD-501 DAC; Luminous Audio Technology Axiom Mk. II passive line stage; conrad-johnson Sonographe SA250; Paradigm SE-1. WW Silver Starlight 7 (laptop to REGEN); WW Eclipse 7 (Axiom II to SA250) & Equinox 6 (UD-501 to Axiom II) ICs, Blue Jeans/Belden 5T00UP speaker cable, Blue Circle Thingee FX 0e power distributor; Shunyata Sidewinder Gold power cords (wall toThingee & from Thingee to UD-501); Wireworld Electra 5/2 (Thingee to HP PC).

Bedroom:External USB 3.0 4TB HDD-->Win 10 i7 laptop/JRiver Media Center audio player; Shunyata Alpha USB cable; TEAC UD-501; Luminous Audio Technology Axiom Mk. II Walker Mod passive line stage; conrad-johnson Sonographe SA250; stand-mounted Paradigm Studio 20 v.5; original Shunyata Hydra PLC; WW Eclipse 8 ICs and Wireworld Eclipse 8 SC; Shunyata Venom NR v10 power cord from wall to Hydra & from Hydra to UD-501; PS Audio Power Port; Shunyata Venom Defender; Stillpoints Ultra Minis under Hydra, UD-501, and SA250; Final Labs Daruma 3-IIs under laptop; GIK 244 and 224 traps, Alpha 4A panels, and DIY 4"-thick 12"x15" traps.

Last edited by jimtranr; 09-08-2019 at 01:53 PM.
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2019, 02:49 PM
GrantS GrantS is offline
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Hi,

I'd like to offer some context based on experience. Remember, DAC's are analog signal-output devices, so they are sensitive to instantaneous current in the same way a pre-amp would be or even an amplifier, just not to the same degree. Depending on the power supply design, some DAC's are more sensitive to the gauge of a power cord than others but in general, they are notably sensitive. This represents both my experience and the shared experience of customers and dealers I've spoken to over the past 20 or so years.

Between the Venom 12NR and Venom 10NR, cost would be the relevant factor in making a buying decision. I would consider component/system cost and what you are comparing each power cord to. If budget and cost context is not out of line, I recommend spending the extra $100 on the Venom 10NR because there will be worthwhile improvements in perceived three dimensionality in sound. Lower octave weight and impact will be greater with a heavier gauge power cord on a DAC all else being equal. We list the gauge of these power cords in their title expressly because power cord gauge, based on the type of application should be considered up front when making a buying or evaluation decision.

On any digital-signal output device such as a transport, Clock, server, NAS, upsampled, computer etc, larger gauge power cord benefits disappear, which is where the Venom 14 Digital comes in.

The point of the three options of Venom NR power cords is to offer choices in terms of price and the type of application. For all analog-signal output electronics, the Venom 12NR and Venom 10NR are the options to consider based on budget. For digital signal-output components, the Venom 14NR is perhaps the best cost/performance power cord we've ever produced- including for all video applications.

Regards,
Grant
Shunyata Research
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  #14  
Old 09-08-2019, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post
jimtranr or Puma Cat, I am curious. How flexible are these Venom NR cords and, other than gauge, are there any differences between the v10 and v12? I was a bit surprised to see a 10-gauge cord used on a DAC, a rather small component.

I haven't had much interest in pursuing the power cord upgrade to my preamp I'd been mulling over for a while; in fact, due to schedule and lack of will, my living room still hasn't been put back together a month and a half (!) after a new air conditioner was installed. I have no access to the system and so haven't listened to it for over two months (and haven't missed it as much as one might think, btw). But jimtranr's enthusiastic review of the NR v10 may rekindle my earlier interest in that preamp upgrade. I was kicking around whether I should get the NR v12 (thinking that would be enough) or a Transparent Premium, which is only $9 more after Transparent's upgrade program. Both offer noise reduction, which I haven't considered a system problem, but I never know what having a noise-reducing PC might do. I have a Transparent HPPC on my preamp now, which is shielded but doesn't do noise reduction.

The network module on the Transparent does other things besides noise reduction, though I don't know exactly what ("among other things" is how Transparent put it). The Venom looks cool, though, and I don't necessarily have to be a completist, as all other power cords in the system are Transparent except one. So if either of you guys have insights that you could share it might be helpful once I decide to go for the change to my preamp PC.
Hi Prepress,
Jim's given you some good input and provide mine for some additional context from a use-case scenario.

As for the NR-V10 or V-12 for your DAC, when you're referring to a "small component", my guess is you're referring that components need for DTCD: Dynamic Current Transient Delivery. While this is an important attribute for source components, its more important for components like power amps and power distributors.

I have both the NR-V10 and V-12. I'm presently using the NRV-12 for my DAC and when I use the phono stage, I swap out the Black Mamba CX I used to use for the NR-V12 (can't listen to the DAC and phono stage simultaneously). As both components are close by and easily accessible, its easy enough to do this switch.

While the NR-V10 will deliver more DTCD in an absolute sense, I don't have the data at hand to speak to how much of an improvement this would bring to dynamic transient current delivery needs of a DAC compared, say, to a power amp. Both cords are pretty frickin' amazing: after installing the NR-V12 on my DAC when it was powered by my Triton, the improvement it brought over a large gauge Black Mamba CX (with over 220 conductors) was....CONSIDERABLE. "Gobsmacked" per my post from a while back.

And, when I replaced the Black Mamba HC CX with the NR-V10, the improvement that power cord brought over the even higher-DTCD cable HC CX was in a word....staggering. I heard things on my big Dyn on very dynamic content (e.g. Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet ballet I've never them do in 10 years of owning them.

Overall, both (or each, depending on how you look at it) brought really significant improvements for any and all "audio attributes" you could care to name or be concerned with, across the board.

I take from this that Shunyata has continued to make significant improvement in DTCD with their latest gen power cords over what used to be superb performers some years ago.

So, with that, I've opted to use the NR-V12 for my DAC. And, I plan on getting one for my phono stage and I would have no qualm of using one for my preamp, either, though I'm presently using the NR-V10 for that.

So, what it comes down in the end, I think, is budget. If I had ~$1000 to spend on power cords, I'd get 3 x $350 NR-V12 for my pre, phono stage and DAC, rather than spending $900 for only two NR-V10s. This is because the NR filter on each power cord provide noise suppression from noise coming back out of the components power supply to contaminate the rest of the power distribution chain, so the more you have in the system overall, the more total benefit is obtained.

If you only have the need for a PC for a DAC, you could get the NR-V10 if you have the budget for it. Personally, I'd save that $100 and put it towards the end goal of having NR-series power cords on every component.

Hope this helps.

Stephen aka PC
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  #15  
Old 09-08-2019, 05:15 PM
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First, I have to clarify. When I said all but one of my current PCs are Transparent, that's not accurate. I forgot, the power conditioners have Venom HCs and the TV has a Venom 3s; as for the "one," my laserdisc player has a C7 PS Audio Jewel AC.

I can identify with jimtranr's first post in that on my preamp, I moved from a Wireworld Electra 7. The IEC grip was poor, and I moved to the Transparent HPPC for that reason. The unexpected sound improvement was a "gobsmack" (sorry, Puma Cat). That prompted the move to other Transparent HPPCs, and later on to Premiums on my power amps, where I also heard improvement, though not as big as with the preamp.

The Venom v12 is likely the most flexible option overall of the three possibilities, it seems. My preamp is a McIntosh C2300, so no digital, and while I don't need the 1.75 length, the flexibility is attractive. And the v12's jacket will match everything else. Unless there's a practical reason for the v10 someone can think of, I'll think about the v12 for my 2300.
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  #16  
Old 09-08-2019, 07:03 PM
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I have the following:

1 Venom NR-V12 that goes to my McIntosh C220 preamp.
1 Venom NR-V12 that goes to my McIntosh D100 DAC.
1 Venom NR-V10 that goes to my Decware Taboo 6 watt SEP tube amp.

Perhaps if my amp needed more power it might make a difference, but I could have gotten away with saving $100 and went with all NR-V12's for my main components. I think you would be absolutely fine with NR-V12's.

The rest of my system power details if interested are:

1 Venom V14 that goes to my HTPC.
1 Venom V14 that goes to my HDTV.
PS8/Defender/SS Feet bundle.
1 Delta NR that powers the PS8 bundle.

Then I also have a SurgeX Defender Series SX-DS-156 that I plug misc. switching power supplies into, such as my network switch, cable box and NAS.

Last edited by beowulf; 09-08-2019 at 07:09 PM.
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2019, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrantS View Post
...Remember, DAC's are analog signal-output devices, so they are sensitive to instantaneous current in the same way a pre-amp would be or even an amplifier, just not to the same degree. Depending on the power supply design, some DAC's are more sensitive to the gauge of a power cord than others but in general, they are notably sensitive. This represents both my experience and the shared experience of customers and dealers I've spoken to over the past 20 or so years.
A pertinent reminder, Grant. Thanks. Your "notably sensitive" observation was certainly borne out here by the easily discernible improvement in dimensionality, heft, and teasing out of rhythmic and harmonic nuance wrought by the v10 over a comparably-priced upgraded-connector PC that itself had earlier elevated system performance over the stock PC configuration.
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Living Room: Win 10 AMD A12 laptop/JRiver Media Center 25 audio player; Uptone Audio ISO REGEN powered by LPS 1.2 Ultra Cap supply; TEAC UD-501 DAC; upgraded SOTA Sapphire III; Origin Live Encounter Mk3c/Ortofon 2M Black, Graham Slee Era Gold V; McIntosh MR77; Oppo BDP-83; conrad johnson Premier 17LS (6922EH); conrad-johnson MF2500; Paradigm SE-3. Wireworld Starlight 7 USB (laptop to ISO REGEN); Wireworld Eclipse 7 (UD-501 to 17LS & 17LS-to-MF2500) and Equinox 6 ICs, Blue Jeans/Belden 5T00UP SC. PS Audio Dectet, Wireworld Electra 7 PCs (PR17LS, Dectet) & Electra 5/2 (wall to Dectet and to Sony Bravia 40" flatscreen), Hubbell HBL5362 duplex outlet. GIK standard 244, scatter-plate 244, and Monster panel traps.

Home Office: Win 10 HP PC/JRiver Media Center 25 audio player; Uptone Audio REGEN w/ LPS-1 linear power supply; TEAC UD-501 DAC; Luminous Audio Technology Axiom Mk. II passive line stage; conrad-johnson Sonographe SA250; Paradigm SE-1. WW Silver Starlight 7 (laptop to REGEN); WW Eclipse 7 (Axiom II to SA250) & Equinox 6 (UD-501 to Axiom II) ICs, Blue Jeans/Belden 5T00UP speaker cable, Blue Circle Thingee FX 0e power distributor; Shunyata Sidewinder Gold power cords (wall toThingee & from Thingee to UD-501); Wireworld Electra 5/2 (Thingee to HP PC).

Bedroom:External USB 3.0 4TB HDD-->Win 10 i7 laptop/JRiver Media Center audio player; Shunyata Alpha USB cable; TEAC UD-501; Luminous Audio Technology Axiom Mk. II Walker Mod passive line stage; conrad-johnson Sonographe SA250; stand-mounted Paradigm Studio 20 v.5; original Shunyata Hydra PLC; WW Eclipse 8 ICs and Wireworld Eclipse 8 SC; Shunyata Venom NR v10 power cord from wall to Hydra & from Hydra to UD-501; PS Audio Power Port; Shunyata Venom Defender; Stillpoints Ultra Minis under Hydra, UD-501, and SA250; Final Labs Daruma 3-IIs under laptop; GIK 244 and 224 traps, Alpha 4A panels, and DIY 4"-thick 12"x15" traps.

Last edited by jimtranr; 09-09-2019 at 01:46 PM.
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