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  #21  
Old 02-11-2017, 05:19 AM
tjarmstrong tjarmstrong is offline
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I'm not against tone controls but I've never used them. I attempt to work on listening position, speaker position, and room acoustics first.
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  #22  
Old 02-12-2017, 01:33 PM
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MORTIS MORTIS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodH View Post
Lately I have started to notice that at times the speakers tend to be a bit bright, and this is worse if the recording was done poorly. ... I haven't really noticed this a lot in the past, so I am not sure if it is my hearing is changing or maybe different music that I am listening to.
rodH: Depending on your age, you may be experiencing something similar to what happened to me. As I've entered my senior years I have become uncomfortably sensitive to upper frequencies in the range or around 2K to 10K hz.


I agree that listening position, speaker placement, and room acoustics should first be done to allow the system to perform as designed, however, with all due respect to individual tastes and opinions, I'll never understand folks who refuse to have or use tone/EQ controls in their system, especially those insisting on hearing the music as it was 'intended'. I doubt any of us could ever know unless we were present during final mastering.
After all, every system and room sounds different, and we all know speakers sound significantly different, even within the same brand, so which system, room, or speakers are successfully projecting the music as intended?
Although a strong advocate for tone/EQ adjustments when beneficial, I have my system and room dialed in well enough so that any EQ adjustments are rarely needed, but this can never correct those occasional recordings that are either poor or not EQ'd during final engineering to suite my personal preference. I mean without EQ controls what do you do for a particularly bright recording, or one with an overly dominant bottom end? I have a few such albums, and some which are otherwise excellent recordings.

Engaging the tone/EQ controls will of course lengthen the signal path, and although almost imperceptible, will add a degree of distortion; but the potential benefits can outweigh any suspected reduction in signal quality if applied judiciously where and when appropriate.
My only complaint of McIntosh tone and multi-band EQ's are their range of +/- 12 db. I seriously doubt anyone should ever need such extreme range. If Mc made them to be no more than +/- 6 db within the same rotational arc of 7 to 5 O'clock, it would be much easier to make minute adjustments. It's especially difficult since most of my adjustments are no more than the smallest amount off center detent, which risks the knob snapping back to detent after I sit down.
In my humble opinion, an adjustment of no more than +/- 1 minute on the rotational clock is all that is needed to improve a suspect recording; any more and you risk damaging the natural presentation of the performance.

Ok I'm done
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  #23  
Old 02-12-2017, 06:28 PM
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Even subs like my JL have not only level controls but cut off frequencies for high, low curves, slopes etc. these too are in a sense a type of a control for tone like an apple and orange are fruits just different. Anyway I for sure not only think it is ok but it is the user to each their own.

But it you spend mega bucks on good gear at least try to match the EQ devices etc as to not degrade your gear right.

I mean heck after all look at the mixing boards from Norah Jones to Pink Floyd. Impressive stuff
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  #24  
Old 02-12-2017, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MORTIS View Post
rodH: Depending on your age, you may be experiencing something similar to what happened to me. As I've entered my senior years I have become uncomfortably sensitive to upper frequencies in the range or around 2K to 10K hz.





I agree that listening position, speaker placement, and room acoustics should first be done to allow the system to perform as designed, however, with all due respect to individual tastes and opinions, I'll never understand folks who refuse to have or use tone/EQ controls in their system, especially those insisting on hearing the music as it was 'intended'. I doubt any of us could ever know unless we were present during final mastering.

After all, every system and room sounds different, and we all know speakers sound significantly different, even within the same brand, so which system, room, or speakers are successfully projecting the music as intended?

Although a strong advocate for tone/EQ adjustments when beneficial, I have my system and room dialed in well enough so that any EQ adjustments are rarely needed, but this can never correct those occasional recordings that are either poor or not EQ'd during final engineering to suite my personal preference. I mean without EQ controls what do you do for a particularly bright recording, or one with an overly dominant bottom end? I have a few such albums, and some which are otherwise excellent recordings.



Engaging the tone/EQ controls will of course lengthen the signal path, and although almost imperceptible, will add a degree of distortion; but the potential benefits can outweigh any suspected reduction in signal quality if applied judiciously where and when appropriate.

My only complaint of McIntosh tone and multi-band EQ's are their range of +/- 12 db. I seriously doubt anyone should ever need such extreme range. If Mc made them to be no more than +/- 6 db within the same rotational arc of 7 to 5 O'clock, it would be much easier to make minute adjustments. It's especially difficult since most of my adjustments are no more than the smallest amount off center detent, which risks the knob snapping back to detent after I sit down.

In my humble opinion, an adjustment of no more than +/- 1 minute on the rotational clock is all that is needed to improve a suspect recording; any more and you risk damaging the natural presentation of the performance.



Ok I'm done


Good post and also great food for thought too.
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  #25  
Old 02-12-2017, 07:05 PM
NZ421291 NZ421291 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tutomac View Post
NOTHING, NOTHING sounds like a live performance. Period. Many products claim to do it, but NOBODY can reproduce live music as it was played the first time. I don't care if you spend $500K or more, you will never live that moment again. It's physically and physiologically impossible.
Therefore, I have no problems tweaking my music as my surrounding environment tells me to do in order to make MY experience as pleasurable as possible.

So I do

Happy Listening
Live music can be, & too frequently is, terrible.

In fact I have rarely experienced live music that has been even close to the quality music produced by my system.

The performers use cheap amps, with low cost cables, use a tone deaf sound mixer, guitars obviously out of tune. Band members who have just had a fight back stage so are ignoring each other- so they are not 'playing together', stoned & drunk artists who forget lyrics, or mix-up songs. Performers who soil themselves on stage or think that we want to see them naked. Members of the audience who insist on talking throughout the performance or who continually get up, walk in front of you, to go to the toilet or buy food or drink etc.

The Who concert in Auckland a few years back was ruined due to awful set-up. My Boss's wife was ill & couldn't go, so I was invited- Boss's seats were just 12 rows from the front of the stage- bass was over powering- it actually made my tummy vibrate-not good when full of wine. The treble was muted, you could see Pete Townsend playing the guitar, but he was just producing distorted noise. Had to wear ear plugs as it was just too loud (and I LOVE music played LOUD)- but they were just blasting us off our feet- even when I escaped to the rear of the stadium. I've heard 105mm artillery firing that was not as loud!

If that's 'live music' you can keep it & count me out.

Its not just rock concerts. Took 'her indoors' to a Concert at the Auckland Town Hall (renown for its excellent acoustics). Only problem was that we were surrounded by people who coughed & sputtered & blew their noses throughout the performance- totally ruined the experience.

Again, if that's 'live music' you can keep it & count me out.
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  #26  
Old 02-12-2017, 08:24 PM
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Yeah, I agree. With all that awful experience, I would stick to recorded music too
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  #27  
Old 02-13-2017, 06:29 PM
1KW 1KW is offline
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Blasphemy not to use tone controls when you need them if it makes the experience of listening to music more enjoyable.
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  #28  
Old 05-31-2018, 02:21 PM
Whatever Whatever is offline
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At one time Mc had a loudness button, that my Pioneer has. At times it helps alot. I wish Mc would bring it back.
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  #29  
Old 05-31-2018, 04:48 PM
feinstei feinstei is offline
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I use the tone controls to make inferior mono recordings such as some of the early Frank Sinatra Capitol Records (like "Songs For Swingin' Lovers) into glorious stereo. I simply turn the treble control on my C2300 to maximum on the left channel and turn down the bass control. Then I do the opposite on the right channel, turning the bass up to maximum. That way, I get New Improved Full Dimensional Stereo from those obsolete mono records. I use my Crosley record player because I can tape a quarter onto the needle if the record skips.
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  #30  
Old 05-31-2018, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feinstei View Post
I use my Crosley record player because I can tape a quarter onto the needle if the record skips.
I used to use a nickel, must be inflation.
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