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  #61  
Old 11-18-2014, 11:11 AM
Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is offline
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This is an issue all of a sudden.

When I stand up, bass drops off. It hasn't ben an issue for over 21 years; but now I notice it. James Tanner suggests this is a room node. Placement for speakers is limited. I can play with toe-in and could move them back some. I'll have to decide first whether the drop-off bothers me, and if so then how to handle things.
First, that is likely a room mode. Second, it is not likely to be affected by adjustments in speaker position because standing up changes your listening position, not the speakers'. There are only three logical solutions: (1) Some kind of physical room treatment which is likely to be bulky, (2) DSP room correction or (3) stay seated when listening.
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  #62  
Old 11-18-2014, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
First, that is likely a room mode. Second, it is not likely to be affected by adjustments in speaker position because standing up changes your listening position, not the speakers'. There are only three logical solutions: (1) Some kind of physical room treatment which is likely to be bulky, (2) DSP room correction or (3) stay seated when listening.
Hello,

I usually am, but if the music is on when I'm in the kitchen cooking, I come into the living room to listen periodically and that's when I hear it. Or if I get up to go to the bathroom or kitchen for something. Maybe I should check this out with the TV as well. The sound system on my plasma is quite good for a flat panel, so I should be able to tell the difference.

I thought about the DSP option, but I'm not sure if I want to go that far.

I mentioned this drop-off to Bill Dudleston at the recent NY Audio show, and while there was no real conversation about it, he mentioned that Legacy does have such things in mind as they design their speakers. Don't know what he was referring to specifically, though. I wonder if Bryston speakers would have less of an issue with this also, as they're supposed to have a good vertical image. Such may not solve the problem but I wonder if it would help any.

See, this is why I'm a semi-hobbyist.
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  #63  
Old 11-18-2014, 04:25 PM
Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is offline
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If it is really a bass problem, it is not an imaging issue. Bass wavelengths are much larger than speaker dimensions so, in effect, speakers are omnidirectional for bass. The major exception is for dipoles which have lateral cancellations and may not excite the same room modes in the same way.
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  #64  
Old 11-18-2014, 04:41 PM
2fastdriving 2fastdriving is offline
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I have this "problem" in my room, too... But never considered it to be a problem. I don't care how great the bass is when I'm cooking! Only when seated in my cozy chair.
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  #65  
Old 11-19-2014, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
If it is really a bass problem, it is not an imaging issue. Bass wavelengths are much larger than speaker dimensions so, in effect, speakers are omnidirectional for bass. The major exception is for dipoles which have lateral cancellations and may not excite the same room modes in the same way.
That's why I was perplexed.

I conducted the experiment last night mentioned previously. My TV is a Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD, with an 18wpc sound system. It sits on a 32" equipment rack between the Mirages, and the TV's bottom-most drivers are all just above the plane of the Mirage woofers.

Listening to the TV, which sounds nice and balanced in my usual seat, that nice sound went away when I stood up. The sound became bass-heavy, and in some cases the midrange sounded muddy. This is the opposite of what happens with the Mirages. This is weird to me. I never paid attention to this before, but now that it's obvious, I wonder what the deal is. While I'm at it, there is a similar phenomenon with a Cambridge Soundworks table radio I have, which is on the same wall as my listening position, to my left. When it was on a table, the bass was uninspiring. But sitting on top of a 60" bookshelf, the bass is much more full and solid. The speakers are above my ears.

I know there's an explanation, but I don't know what that is, or if I should spend too much time on figuring it out.
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  #66  
Old 11-19-2014, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
I have this "problem" in my room, too... But never considered it to be a problem. I don't care how great the bass is when I'm cooking! Only when seated in my cozy chair.
I was this way for so long. But now that I'm aware of it, it'll likely mess with my curiosity until I either let go of it or solve it. I lean toward the former.
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  #67  
Old 01-03-2015, 06:35 AM
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A friend of mine is going through some really challenging times. She's on a fixed income and is in a less-than-ideal living situation. Her rent has gone up (what else is new), and with medical bills factored in she is now living above her means.

I've offered to make up the difference in her rent for this year, and as a result will have to curb my audio jones beyond minor tweaks. I may replace the WW Aurora on my preamp with an Electra, but for now that may be it. This is a friend of long acquaintance (23 years), and I felt led to help. It doesn't solve her problems, but it will at least provide some small assistance. As for whether it makes sense to replace my speakers, for the foreseeable future that idea is on hold unless they quit on me.
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  #68  
Old 06-09-2015, 04:05 PM
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Not sure what this was.

Last Thursday I was listening to a CD, part of the Time-Life series AM Gold. On some of the songs I heard what sounded like distortion in the bass, and from the right channel only, it seemed. I didn't get up to check that, as I was too busy trying to decide if this was some previously unheard detail or true distortion; I'm still not sure. I wondered if perhaps the right woofer or its cone was having a problem. Listening sessions are so rare for me these days, maybe the supposed "distortion" (a kind of grainy yet detailed fuzziness) is in the recording and not something to be concerned with. Either way, I don't remember hearing it before.

More listening is needed. The other frequencies seemed unaffected, so it may be nothing. If this is a speaker problem, my search would be on, as I decided a while back I would not attempt to have the Mirages repaired should they fail. They're 22 years old and counting; I've gotten my money's worth in spades. My short list is already set: Bryston Model T, Legacy Signature SE, and (despite my reluctance on powered speakers) the Golden Ear Triton One, with perhaps the latest Def Tech Mythos in there also (the most stylish of the bunch insofar as blending into the room goes).

Been too busy to power up the system since Thursday.
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  #69  
Old 11-24-2017, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post
This is an issue all of a sudden.

When I stand up, bass drops off. It hasn't ben an issue for over 21 years; but now I notice it. James Tanner suggests this is a room node. Placement for speakers is limited. I can play with toe-in and could move them back some. I'll have to decide first whether the drop-off bothers me, and if so then how to handle things.
Interesting thing. At the recent NY Audio Show I got to hear Legacy Aeris speakers, and in that room the opposite happened.

The Focus SE went up in price and is now out of reach, so I move on to other possibilities down the road. The Focus SEs are too much for a 1BR apartment anyway, probably.
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  #70  
Old 10-13-2019, 06:20 AM
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I have a question and wonder if there's any theory or perspective out there that can help.

I have begun considering a "last fling" purchase as I near retirement, and it's the idea of a new TV, despite my pleasure with my current one. I have a Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD Kuro plasma now. I'm looking at a 55" OLED with new Salamander Synergy equipment racks, or (as of yesterday) maybe foregoing the racks and getting a 65" OLED. My decision now seems to relate to my Mirage speakers.

Currently my speakers are about 10' apart, with my Kuro in the center, across the room's short dimension (no other real set-up option). They are toed-in slightly and about 4' from the rear wall, which has a media cabinet (LP, CD) behind each speaker. As my Mirages are bipolar, it would likely help if the rear wall was blank, but that's not an option. My seating distance is about 9' from the plane of the speakers, 9.5' from the screen. The soundstage is appropriately wide, but quite shallow; this hasn't bothered me much before, but I'm suddenly aware of it now (go figure). If I replace my TV with the 55" OLED, I'll be able to put the speakers closer together by about 8" because the 55" OLED is the same width as my Kuro sans speakers (48"). The 65" OLED is the same width as my Kuro with the speakers (57").

My question is whether that 8" is enough to make a difference in soundstage depth, at least in theory. I might also increase the toe-in angle to see if that helps.
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