How Do Hi Fi Companies Stay in Business?

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Bar81

I guess I'm just more laid back about this hobby and empathize with a boutique shop having limited resources.

I’ve never encountered any boutique that didn’t pay attention to customers outside of audio to be honest. Any other boutique makes sure you get a top notch experience and the products are showcased/displayed properly. From watches to designer clothes, shoes, bags, even collector grade firearms. Ever seen a messy exotic/luxury car showroom? Why should audio be different? Speakers costing more than a car not properly displayed/setup? What kind of a boutique is that?

[greekgod]

I remember back when TW-Acustic would sell their turntables direct. This allowed them to sell their turntables at prices that were insanely competitive. Now, they use dealers and their turntables have become ridiculously overpriced. If I am not mistaken, they literally only have 1 dealer in all of North America that offers no discounts. I just don't see how that benefits the customer at all.

I am really starting to think the best thing for high end companies to do would be to sell direct only and demonstrate their products at shows such as RMAF and the LA Audio Show. Discount codes can be given to customers who come to the shows. It is not like dealers have much to demo anyways. Even if they represent a brand you are interested in, there is no guarantee they even stock demos. There is a dealer near me that represents both Bryston and Audio Research. I have NEVER seen them have a Audio Research product in stock. I once asked if they could demo a Bryston amp for me and their response was that they typically don't carry demo units for customers to just listen to. They had a Bryston amp on the floor that I pointed out but they didn't want to hook it up because it was a customer consignment. As PCH1 pointed out, dealers are held to unacceptably low standards.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by bart

Good thread.
Very valuable thoughts and insights.

I'm going to defend the dealer here.
If you have a good one, you can test and compare the brands he has in stock, after you have discovered them at audio shows or other bigger events, where the conditions are suboptimal at best.
If you only have demo rooms at the manufacturer to hear the gear after you've fallen in love with it on a show, it might become difficult to let this early love grow, when you need to travel perhaps even to another continent to test it.

I am willing to travel a good couple of hours to hear good set-ups, yes indeed good ones, in well treated rooms.
Because also, there you can compare the brand you want to get to know better with other brands in the store, something you can't do in the manufacturer's demo room.
You cannot expect Wilson Audio to provide a room with a pair of Alexx as well as some SF Aidas to compare them.

So yes, long live the dealer!
Of course I'm blessed with some great ones here, with regular brand shows, and lots of gear in the house.

No, you cannot expect Wilson or Sonus Faber to have “competing” brands present at their factory showroom just like you wouldn’t expect Ferrari to display Lamborghini but why not display “their own” craftsmanship in best possible conditions? Isn’t what this hobby all about? Honestly I wouldn’t even know where to go to audition both Alexx and Aida in equally good rooms under the same roof.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by greekgod

I remember back when TW-Acustic would sell their turntables direct. This allowed them to sell their turntables at prices that were insanely competitive. Now, they use dealers and their turntables have become ridiculously overpriced. If I am not mistaken, they literally only have 1 dealer in all of North America that offers no discounts. I just don't see how that benefits the customer at all.

I am really starting to think the best thing for high end companies to do would be to sell direct only and demonstrate their products at shows such as RMAF and the LA Audio Show. Discount codes can be given to customers who come to the shows. It is not like dealers have much to demo anyways. Even if they represent a brand you are interested in, there is no guarantee they even stock demos. There is a dealer near me that represents both Bryston and Audio Research. I have NEVER seen them have a Audio Research product in stock. I once asked if they could demo a Bryston amp for me and their response was that they typically don't carry demo units for customers to just listen to. They had a Bryston amp on the floor that I pointed out but they didn't want to hook it up because it was a customer consignment. As PCH1 pointed out, dealers are held to unacceptably low standards.

There is a home based TW-Acustic “brand representative” right in my neighborhood. Before that I would have had to drive to NYC, be stuck in traffic for over an hour in one of the tunnels to get in and out of NYC. No thanks, hence I never owned a TW-Acustic. I just may go visit my neighbor who is now a brand liaison.

[PHC1]

One of the greatest ideas I have ever come across in my other hobby of flying model aircraft are the Team Pilots or representatives of a particular brand often present at the more popular club fields. These guys are up to speed, in the know, answer questions, offer help and dazzle the crowd with their skills. Always eager to help with the technical info, setup, offer suggestions and guidance for those that need it. Airplanes, helicopters, etc. Who are they? The same enthusiasts as we are, just a bunch of guys who take pride in being a team member, participating and enjoying their hobby and willing to land a helping hand promoting the hobby and camaraderie at the flying field all for the benefit and future viability of the hobby which has also seen a downturn with hardly any new participation from the younger generation. Before that time there was the typical hobby shop guy who is way too busy to pay attention to anyone in the store other than the guy at the cash register with the purchase in hand.

Sound familiar?

Those hobby shops are long gone now. The internet killed them? No, the attitude killed them. Those that need guidance would much rather find it among the like minded enthusiasts and then order online since the old timer was a grouch and a greedy business owner instead of a promoter of the hobby.

[PHC1]

One only has to look around to see the trends of the younger generation to see what the future looks like. Few weekends ago was the NYC CanJam... That's the headphone show for you old timers.

Record attendance, massive participation, much enthusiasm and buzz all over the headphone forums. Most headphone manufacturers present and displaying their latest and greatest. These enthusiasts went to the show, saw, touched and heard what they liked and where do you think they will buy their next headphone set? At the local dealer? No, the internet. You better believe the forums have much more influence and spark much more interest and desire than any dealer. It is the way things work today.

[bart]

Originally Posted by PHC1

No, you cannot expect Wilson or Sonus Faber to have “competing” brands present at their factory showroom just like you wouldn’t expect Ferrari to display Lamborghini but why not display “their own” craftsmanship in best possible conditions? Isn’t what this hobby all about? Honestly I wouldn’t even know where to go to audition both Alexx and Aida in equally good rooms under the same roof.

Serge, I agree with you on this: it would be nice that manufacturers offer the possibility to visit them and listen to their products in a good room.
There are already brands that offer this possibility.
For example, last Sunday, we were invited to Berlin to visit the MBL factory, where they also demo their top system.
A fantastic way to learn about and appreciate the gear you're interested in/lusting for.

But to actually compare brands, in the same room, I don't see another way than visiting a good dealer.
At my dealer, you can compare speakers from B&W, Vivid Audio, Sonus Faber, Wilson Audio, Verity Audio, Focal, KEF, Martin Logan, Avantgarde Acoustic, MBL, Monitor Audio, and many others, all at the same moment if you desire to.
The same goes for the electronics. He has so much gear that you feel like a kid in a candy shop.

[1KW]

Originally Posted by akfaulkner

I tend to agree with many thoughts here. I am on the younger side of folks that I know are audiophiles so I have a lot of friends that just don't go to high end dealers bc it's not worth it, also typically the high end dealers are so behind in technology.

Just go into a high end audio store and ask for a demo of using a Amazon Alexa or Google Home controlled audio system...afaik I have never seen this at a dealer. Basically I think they are missing out on the lifestyle aspects and tech integration.

Even with that, I feel like a high end audio store still has a place if they focus on the music and movies....build a community...want to sell theater systems, have a couple of hosted movie nights to test out the equipment. Want to sell more audio gear, then have new hosted music Friday or weekend events...build a website and portal around this and provide people a place to learn and discover music and movies and couple this with more lifestyle products then I am sure you can upsell enough folks and get good repeat business!

But I don't own a audio store so it's probably hot air . Fun to think about though

+ 1

[1KW]

Serge from your posts if anyone understands what a audiophile wants it would be you. I think you would be a natural to have a brick and mortar audiophile store. Maybe some of the major manufacturing players along with Ivan would be open to some of your ideas and experiment with a short term 2 year lease to see if you could set up a regional center in the suburbs of Philadelphia ?

[Still-One]

Serge
There are dealers where you could compare the Alexx and Aida or XLF and Lilium. I know that in general my local dealer carries every current speaker or component for all of his major lines. There is the exception where he sells an item out of stock and may or may not decide to replace it. I think the Aida and possibly the 800d3 might be the only examples I can think of that you might not be able to audition. Other than than he carries all of the SF, Wilson, AR, B&W, dCS, and McIntosh lines. He has the 2K and 2.1K from McIntosh but possibly not the XRT 1K.

For a B&M dealer to stay relevant you are correct they need to address items that the next generation of audiophile are interested in. This Thursday he is having the Grand Opening of his new MMC ( Modern Music Center) room. He has converted one showroom into a room with headphones, headphone amps, reasonably priced turntables, DAC's, etc. He is bringing in Chris Connacker from Computer Audiophile, Steve Silberman from Roon, plus reps from dCS and Focal for dacs and headphones. Unfortunately I have theater tickets for that evening and cannot attend. I really wanted to go.