Research papers indicate that SARS-CoV-2 may be a bioweapon

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Marveling at the ingenuity of this virus (sarcasm) of how it is able to sustain itself for 17 days and counting on a cruise ship that has no hosts... While I was aware of the lack of clear data on such statistics, the average projections were way less than 17 days.

I also have nothing but deep respect for the scientists involved with such projects (those that are in it for the well-being of the human species and not those who seek ways of weaponizing such things although the lines are often blurred there in such labs) but at the same time have serious doubts that they can outsmart what we will assume is the creation of mother nature. Our best intellectual minds pale in creativity by comparison.

Of course we can not exactly rule out an external source (as in, look above is it a bird, is it a plane, no... it is an unknown flying object)

Can any experts in such topics chime in about the mechanism of sustaining a virus without a host for over 17 days? Has this been ever observed before?

Good post...would love to see this answered

[GSOphile]

Stephen, thanks for this. I read the Market Watch article last month and watched others dismiss it. If this is true, I would expect our government to treat it like Area 51 (too explosive to acknowledge).

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by SCAudiophile

Very good point but still they should have delved into this covertly or otherwise and been more ready which was in fact my point.

Bio-weapons labs, although many do not like to mention them or even try to deny their existence are as real as any other government entity.

Only 16 countries plus Taiwan have had or are currently suspected of having biological weapons programs: Canada, China, Cuba, France, Germany, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Japan, Libya, North Korea, Russia, South Africa, Syria, the United Kingdom and the United States.

There is widespread consensus against the possession and use of biological weapons. Most countries are party to the Biological and Toxin Weapon Convention, but there is no way to know whether countries are complying with their commitments.

Still think they are not on the same page (I mean the entities you mentioned and the governments)?

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by PHC1

That has been on the minds of many from day one, including my own. Very unlikely we will ever get the real truth. Some things are "too big to fail", some are "too sinister to tell"...

For the record, I hold a very neutral position on this topic. I would not be surprised if it was just another case of a bio-weapon that either slipped out or was deliberately unleashed. History does offer factual evidence from a few countries engaged in it and I am familiar with at least a few incidences.

At the same time, I would also not be surprised it is completely natural, although the deeper the research goes, the slimmer the odds are becoming. The article of this being a "Chimera" virus, two viruses that somehow infected the same host at once and recombined? Hmmm....

I"m coming at this from a neutral perspective, too, Serge. I'm just reading these highly technical research papers on chacterizing strains of Coronoviruses that have spike proteins with RBDs than can, or cannot, bind to human ACE2 receptors. So, from research perspective, I get that...characterizing which bat-specific nCoVs (novel Coronaviruses) can or can't infect human cells.

However, in the case of the paper referenced above; the "native" SHC014 strain of Coronavirus cannot bind to human ACE2 receptors. Cool. You learned something; you know you don't have to worry about this specific viral strain.

But, if that's what the team was really tasked with doing, why not just stop there and go on to examine other stains of bat nCoVs?

Why would this team instead stop examining other strains, and then purposely and intentionally genetically engineer a variant of SHC014 that CAN bind to human cells, a strain that shows very effective infection and pathology, AND is resistant to existing monoclonals and vaccines? A team, by that way, that was working on this research BEFORE the fedral government-mandated PAUSE on "GAIN OF FUNCTION" research on highly dangerous viruses?

This is what gives me concern. If your team was simply doing nCoV strain surveillance on strains that can or can't infect humans, and when you find one that cannot, why would you not say, "Okay, well, we know that SHC014 can't infect humans. Let's move on and look for others."? Why would you then deliberately genetically engineer one that can if you're just doing screening/surveillance?

Something's wrong with this picture...

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

I"m coming at this from a neutral perspective, too, Serge. I'm just reading these highly technical research papers on chacterizing strains of Coronoviruses that have spike proteins with RBDs than can, or cannot, bind to human ACE2 receptors. So, from research perspective, I get that...characterizing which bat-specific nCoVs (novel Coronaviruses) can or can't infect human cells.

However, in the case of the paper referenced above; the "native" SHC014 strain of Coronavirus cannot bind to human ACE2 receptors. Cool. You learned something; you know you don't have to worry about this specific viral strain.

But, if that's what the team was really tasked with doing, why not just stop there and go on to examine other stains of bat nCoVs?

Why would this team instead stop examining other strains, and then purposely and intentionally genetically engineer a variant of SHC014 that CAN bind to human cells, a strain that shows very effective infection and pathology, AND is resistant to existing monoclonals and vaccines? A team, by that way, that was working on this research BEFORE the fedral government-mandated PAUSE on "GAIN OF FUNCTION" research on highly dangerous viruses?

This is what gives me concern. If your team was simply doing nCoV strain surveillance on strains that can or can't infect humans, and when you find one that cannot, why would you not say, "Okay, well, we know that SHC014 can't infect humans. Let's move on and look for others."? Why would you then deliberately genetically engineer one that can if you're just doing screening/surveillance?

Something's wrong with this picture...

Yes I agree but am not surprised. Just like the proposed end of nuclear proliferation, I don’t believe it ever worked. If you have extra time on your hands.... https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB61/

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by SCAudiophile

Great post Stephen...my only question on this is why after this paper was published did not someone, be it CDC or even USAMRID or WHO delve into this. This is one of the clearest and most compelling articles referenced thus far. And that's not code [emoji2]

Hi Mark,
The only conclusion I can come to is that this work was specifically being funded as part of program that may been designated something along the lines of "The U.S. Government Deliberative Process Research Funding on Selected Gain of Function Research Involving Influenza, MERS, and SARS Viruses."

This is why its likely CDC, USARMID, or WHO did not delve into it; it was a funded government resarch program.

In other words, there was a government program that was funding this research...before it was paused by the Federal Government in the "U.S. Government Deliberative Process Research Funding Pause on Selected Gain of Function Research Involving Influenza, MERS, and SARS Viruses."

Some time 2015 time-frame, I would surmise. After the Ebola outbreak in 2014, I would think.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Yes I agree but am not surprised. Just like the proposed end of nuclear proliferation, I don’t believe it ever worked. If you have extra time on your hands.... https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB61/

No, I am not surprised, either. After all, the highly deadly anthrax strain that was mailed around after 9/11 in letters in US Mail was the Bacillus anthracis strain developed at the Bioweapons program at Fort Detrick, MD.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by radio times

Most blame the wet meat market, but this is interesting. Giant though it is, it's strange none of the others dotted around the country had the same issue. Perhaps it's not the infected bat-marsupial-Mmm this tastes nice human route, as he brought his sausages from the Wuhan market, and the luna new year flew 'em across the world.

I've had friends ask me how this virus could have escaped from the BSL4 lab in Wuhan.

The Marketwatch article cites a likely means: "some chinese researchers are believed to sell laboratory animals to street vendors after they have finished experimenting on them."

The article continues: "instead of properly disposing of infected animals by cremation, as the law requires, they sell them on the side to make a little extra cash. Or, in some cases, a lot of extra cash. One Beijing researcher, now in jail, made the equivalent of a million dollars selling monkeys and rats on the live animal market, whence they likely wound up in someone’s stomach."

So, one possibility is a lab worker working at the Wuhan BSL4 lab sold dead animals at the wet meat market in Wuhan.

It's also possible someone working in the BSL4 lab also become unknowingly infected. It could have been a gown, mask, glove failure, etc, while working in the lab. As most people who become infected do not start showing symptoms until 5-6 days after infection, its possible that person went out, had dinner with the family or went out into the crowded public spaces and was shedding virus the whole time.

The author of the Marketwatch article continues:
"The evidence, to me, points to SARS-CoV-2 research being carried out at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The virus may have been carried out of the lab by an infected worker or crossed over into humans who unknowingly consumed a lab animal."

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Hi Mark,
The only conclusion I can come to is that this work was specifically being funded as part of program that may been designated something along the lines of "The U.S. Government Deliberative Process Research Funding on Selected Gain of Function Research Involving Influenza, MERS, and SARS Viruses."

This is why its likely CDC, USARMID, or WHO did not delve into it; it was a funded government resarch program.

In other words, there was a government program that was funding this research...before it was paused by the Federal Government in the "U.S. Government Deliberative Process Research Funding Pause on Selected Gain of Function Research Involving Influenza, MERS, and SARS Viruses."

Some time 2015 time-frame, I would surmise. After the Ebola outbreak in 2014, I would think.

Good post, thanks!

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Bio-weapons labs, although many do not like to mention them or even try to deny their existence are as real as any other government entity.

Only 16 countries plus Taiwan have had or are currently suspected of having biological weapons programs: Canada, China, Cuba, France, Germany, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Japan, Libya, North Korea, Russia, South Africa, Syria, the United Kingdom and the United States.

There is widespread consensus against the possession and use of biological weapons. Most countries are party to the Biological and Toxin Weapon Convention, but there is no way to know whether countries are complying with their commitments.

Still think they are not on the same page (I mean the entities you mentioned and the governments)?

Good post, thank you! I am sure of only one thing,...we will never know the absolute truth in our lifetime!