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  #11  
Old 05-17-2016, 05:30 PM
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metaphacts metaphacts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfray View Post
Bill,

David did and outstanding job......he is just fun to talk to and a wealth of knowledge!
For all the great things that have happened to me since leaving Sumiko, one of the things I miss the most is working with David every day.
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  #12  
Old 05-17-2016, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by trek737 View Post
Josh, Thanks for the invite... I am very excited for you! It was nice meeting David and watching him fine tune your speakers. I am looking forward to coming back and listening to those beautiful Amati Futuras with a little bit of David's magic thrown in for good measure! Congrats...
Jim,

You will be impressed with the difference!
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Sonus Faber Amati Futura; C52; REL G1; Silenzio; MT5; MC601 [x2];
MC275 MkV; MEN 220; MCD 1100; Luxman AS-55 Amp Selector;
RGPC 1200C

Green items were all purchased used thru Audioaficionado's "The Marketplace" from other members

Red item was purchased new from Audioaficionado member
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  #13  
Old 05-18-2016, 12:20 PM
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This process is very interesting. I will be trying this, should be fun
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  #14  
Old 05-18-2016, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
This process is very interesting. I will be trying this, should be fun
Please let us know if you hear an improved result!
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Josh

Sonus Faber Amati Futura; C52; REL G1; Silenzio; MT5; MC601 [x2];
MC275 MkV; MEN 220; MCD 1100; Luxman AS-55 Amp Selector;
RGPC 1200C

Green items were all purchased used thru Audioaficionado's "The Marketplace" from other members

Red item was purchased new from Audioaficionado member
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  #15  
Old 05-18-2016, 07:56 PM
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I have performed this process in my room multiple times. It is by no means easy or fully spelled out in the instructions posted here. I have played around with it by varying the distance between the speakers at the start (and therefore distant form the side walls) and with my listening position. The instructions are not crystal clear on the starting point stating only "put the speakers in an equilateral triangle". On the surface that is straightforward but as you pull the left speaker out from the wall, you are ruining that equilateral triangle. I have started with the Listening position further away than the distance between the speakers.

I recently redid the process after removing my MEN220 from my system. This time when I got the part where JW's voice is supposed to be 3" to 4" in size, I was actually able to hear and 'see' that effect. That is the first time after at least 10 times at this process. It was very cool and it goes away by moving the right speaker more than 1/4". Incredible. When I found that spot, the system became three dimensional like never before with bass so good, I am also not sure I need my F113v2...

This is a very worthwhile process to try but don't think for a minute that you will get it right the first few times.

There are experts who do this for a reason.
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Main room - Sonus Faber Stradivari, JL Audio F113v2 & CR-1 Crossover, McIntosh MC2301 Amplifiers with Stillpoint Ultra SS feet, McIntosh C1100 on Stillpoint Minis, Esoteric K-03X on Stillpoint Minis, Cybershaft Ultimate 2 OP17 on Stillpoint Minis, SilenZio v.2 Audio by -E- Media Server (running ROON), GigaFoil v4, Keces P3 with Ghent PC, 9 M Supra Cat 8+ and 0.65 M Revelation audio ethernet cables, PS Audio P10, Shunyata Denali 6000/S v2 with Venom Defender.

Other - 5 Stillpoint Apertures, GIK Bass Traps, Vicoustics Waveguide panels, Shunyata Alpha Clock 75 1.5 meter BNC, Shunyata Alpha 1.5 meter USB, WW Gold Eclipse 7 SCs, WW Silver Electra 7 PCs, WW Silver Eclipse ICs; 3 X 20 Amp Power lines, 3 Sound Anchor stands, PS Audio Powerports and numerous Noise Harvesters. Furutech Flex 50, Cable risers, HRS dampeners

TV Room Audio - Panasonic TC-P60GT50, McIntosh MX-121, MC7106, Revel F52 & C32, B&W LM1, Sonos Connect\W4S Remedy\iFI 9V Power, WW & Kimber cables, PS Audio Dectet
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  #16  
Old 05-18-2016, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
I have performed this process in my room multiple times. It is by no means easy or fully spelled out in the instructions posted here. I have played around with it by varying the distance between the speakers at the start (and therefore distant form the side walls) and with my listening position. The instructions are not crystal clear on the starting point stating only "put the speakers in an equilateral triangle". On the surface that is straightforward but as you pull the left speaker out from the wall, you are ruining that equilateral triangle. I have started with the Listening position further away than the distance between the speakers.

I recently redid the process after removing my MEN220 from my system. This time when I got the part where JW's voice is supposed to be 3" to 4" in size, I was actually able to hear and 'see' that effect. That is the first time after at least 10 times at this process. It was very cool and it goes away by moving the right speaker more than 1/4". Incredible. When I found that spot, the system became three dimensional like never before with bass so good, I am also not sure I need my F113v2...

This is a very worthwhile process to try but don't think for a minute that you will get it right the first few times.

There are experts who do this for a reason.
That was a great post!!!! Thanks for sharing your experience with the process........

Can you share what you feel is missing in the instructions or some of your "take aways" after working thru this procedure several times?
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Josh

Sonus Faber Amati Futura; C52; REL G1; Silenzio; MT5; MC601 [x2];
MC275 MkV; MEN 220; MCD 1100; Luxman AS-55 Amp Selector;
RGPC 1200C

Green items were all purchased used thru Audioaficionado's "The Marketplace" from other members

Red item was purchased new from Audioaficionado member

Last edited by jfray; 05-18-2016 at 08:08 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-18-2016, 08:25 PM
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Besides the one I mentioned of starting with an equilateral triangle, knowing it will not end up that way...

The early steps of Listening to the bass takes some time and patience but in the end, it is the easiest in my experience to hear and feel. You are making some large moves early to bracket the 'bass' and then increasingly smaller moves to fine tune it. That takes patience but we all know what bass sounds like.

Listening to JW's voice and trying to see the size of her mouth was very difficult for me. I am not the most patient person and as I wrote, you can go from her mouth being too big to still too big and pass through when it clicks into the focused small 3-4" by moving the right speaker too far at one time. 1/4" to 1/2" at a time is the name of the game in that step. That is quite tricky. I had to move it back and forth just to prove that to myself. It is astonishing even to someone who fancies himself an astute audiophile.

Also, Have a patient buddy help you. I have always done this by myself which is why I have yet to finish it and adjust the rake.
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Main room - Sonus Faber Stradivari, JL Audio F113v2 & CR-1 Crossover, McIntosh MC2301 Amplifiers with Stillpoint Ultra SS feet, McIntosh C1100 on Stillpoint Minis, Esoteric K-03X on Stillpoint Minis, Cybershaft Ultimate 2 OP17 on Stillpoint Minis, SilenZio v.2 Audio by -E- Media Server (running ROON), GigaFoil v4, Keces P3 with Ghent PC, 9 M Supra Cat 8+ and 0.65 M Revelation audio ethernet cables, PS Audio P10, Shunyata Denali 6000/S v2 with Venom Defender.

Other - 5 Stillpoint Apertures, GIK Bass Traps, Vicoustics Waveguide panels, Shunyata Alpha Clock 75 1.5 meter BNC, Shunyata Alpha 1.5 meter USB, WW Gold Eclipse 7 SCs, WW Silver Electra 7 PCs, WW Silver Eclipse ICs; 3 X 20 Amp Power lines, 3 Sound Anchor stands, PS Audio Powerports and numerous Noise Harvesters. Furutech Flex 50, Cable risers, HRS dampeners

TV Room Audio - Panasonic TC-P60GT50, McIntosh MX-121, MC7106, Revel F52 & C32, B&W LM1, Sonos Connect\W4S Remedy\iFI 9V Power, WW & Kimber cables, PS Audio Dectet
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  #18  
Old 05-18-2016, 08:36 PM
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jfray jfray is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
Besides the one I mentioned of starting with an equilateral triangle, knowing it will not end up that way...

The early steps of Listening to the bass takes some time and patience but in the end, it is the easiest in my experience to hear and feel. You are making some large moves early to bracket the 'bass' and then increasingly smaller moves to fine tune it. That takes patience but we all know what bass sounds like.

Listening to JW's voice and trying to see the size of her mouth was very difficult for me. I am not the most patient person and as I wrote, you can go from her mouth being too big to still too big and pass through when it clicks into the focused small 3-4" by moving the right speaker too far at one time. 1/4" to 1/2" at a time is the name of the game in that step. That is quite tricky. I had to move it back and forth just to prove that to myself. It is astonishing even to someone who fancies himself an astute audiophile.

Also, Have a patient buddy help you. I have always done this by myself which is why I have yet to finish it and adjust the rake.
That is really neat and thanks for the additional insight to your experience!

Your quote really intrigues me and am going to listen to this song so I can fully understand the effect...... "This time when I got the part where JW's voice is supposed to be 3" to 4" in size, I was actually able to hear and 'see' that effect."

Thanks!
__________________
Josh

Sonus Faber Amati Futura; C52; REL G1; Silenzio; MT5; MC601 [x2];
MC275 MkV; MEN 220; MCD 1100; Luxman AS-55 Amp Selector;
RGPC 1200C

Green items were all purchased used thru Audioaficionado's "The Marketplace" from other members

Red item was purchased new from Audioaficionado member

Last edited by jfray; 05-18-2016 at 08:41 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-18-2016, 08:50 PM
metaphacts's Avatar
metaphacts metaphacts is offline
Lower Provo River, UT
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Springville, Utah
Posts: 4,330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
I have performed this process in my room multiple times. It is by no means easy or fully spelled out in the instructions posted here. I have played around with it by varying the distance between the speakers at the start (and therefore distant form the side walls) and with my listening position. The instructions are not crystal clear on the starting point stating only "put the speakers in an equilateral triangle". On the surface that is straightforward but as you pull the left speaker out from the wall, you are ruining that equilateral triangle. I have started with the Listening position further away than the distance between the speakers.

I recently redid the process after removing my MEN220 from my system. This time when I got the part where JW's voice is supposed to be 3" to 4" in size, I was actually able to hear and 'see' that effect. That is the first time after at least 10 times at this process. It was very cool and it goes away by moving the right speaker more than 1/4". Incredible. When I found that spot, the system became three dimensional like never before with bass so good, I am also not sure I need my F113v2...

This is a very worthwhile process to try but don't think for a minute that you will get it right the first few times.

There are experts who do this for a reason.

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  #20  
Old 05-19-2016, 03:07 PM
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ngc4900 ngc4900 is offline
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Craig,

Good post. I have done it three times and I am not even close.

Joe
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