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  #1  
Old 06-11-2013, 09:02 AM
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Pronan Pronan is offline
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Default Many a man has said - "don't mess with Shindo kit"

Hi everyone,

Wanted to start a general discussion on what people think is an acceptable level of tinkering with the out of the box Shindo delivery. Over the past 12 months of reading on this very knowledgeable forum and its excellent members there seems to be a feeling that, for some of you, one should not mess with the masters work. For example:

Some comments with strong conviction:
The choice of tubes should not be changed
The power cord is best sourced from Shindo

Some comments with less conviction:
Place amps on hardwood platforms
Shindo interconnects and speaker cable are the best match

Personally I have tried several high end power cords and not had any improvement (tonal change yes but not a quality uplift), however I am willing to try tube rolling (got some Shuguang Treasure KT88-Z on the way)

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 06-11-2013, 09:55 AM
Vinyljh Vinyljh is offline
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Quick answer- leave it alone. Shindo or Auditorium 23 cables only- Switchcraft plugs, at a minimum a must. Stock tubes. Hardwood boards were never recommended by anyone on the Shindo team. What you place your Shindo on has as much of an impact as the cables. Hardwood, in my experience, doesn't sound good. It has a strong character that once again EQ's the sound. Maple is bright, Walnut is warm etc. Most of the dealers, Mr. Aschenbrenner, myself all use Lignolab, some use Box Furniture. These are constructed of various types of plywood.

Speakers- high efficiency, high impedance. The lower the impedance, the lower the reflected impedance of the output transformer on the output tubes, the harder the tubes work, the shorter they live. Not to mention completely changing the voicing of the amp.

"Personally I have tried several high end power cords and not had any improvement (tonal change yes but not a quality uplift)"

Exactly. If it gets better, you have probably corrected for something else- room acoustics, speakers, racks etc

Speak with your dealer, I spend a lot of time giving them information. They spend a lot of time learning and doing the experiments for you.

Jonathan
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:56 AM
dirtbag dirtbag is offline
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I'm most definitely use the keep it simple approach.
Simple quality ingredients. Don't mess with a good thing.
It seems like a lot of people in this hobby have more interest in tweaking than they do in actually listening to music. My recent room and system ovehaul has
been to simplify things. My Shindo gear is left as is.
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  #4  
Old 06-11-2013, 10:27 AM
Vinyljh Vinyljh is offline
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"I'm most definitely use the keep it simple approach.
Simple quality ingredients. Don't mess with a good thing.
It seems like a lot of people in this hobby have more interest in tweaking than they do in actually listening to music. My recent room and system ovehaul has
been to simplify things. My Shindo gear is left as is."

Bravo. Spend your money on more music.

Jonathan
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  #5  
Old 06-11-2013, 11:58 AM
NeilNZ NeilNZ is offline
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Jonathan is right on the money. Every time one of my customers try's to tweak something the sound moves away from what Ken Shindo intended. Simpler is better. Bling invariably is just bling.
Audiophilia is filled with people who want to tweak, which is fine, just remember every time someone fiddles takes away from the vision of goodness that is Shindo.
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  #6  
Old 06-11-2013, 12:31 PM
KenSea KenSea is offline
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Default CC34s and 8 ohm speakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinyljh View Post
Quick answer-.

Speakers- high efficiency, high impedance. The lower the impedance, the lower the reflected impedance of the output transformer on the output tubes, the harder the tubes work, the shorter they live. Not to mention completely changing the voicing of the amp.

Jonathan
Jonathan, in reguards to speakers, I am using a pair of CC34s and the Proac D18 which presents a very easy 8 ohm load at 87db, would this make the tubes run a lot harder and hotter than say a 10 ohm load or would I need to go to something much more efficent and even higher impedence. One of the things I have wondered is the tubes are biased at 60 mAs and taking to tube techs they feel its running at the edge even for a really well built Mullard .Also looking at Mullards spec sheet it seems to confirm the techs views.

Thank you for your time,
Ken

Last edited by KenSea; 06-11-2013 at 12:34 PM.
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  #7  
Old 06-11-2013, 01:36 PM
Vinyljh Vinyljh is offline
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I copied this from a website, I hope this helps:

"Some "gurus" will tell you that an EL34, for example, needs around 40mA of bias. This is inaccurate information, because it doesn't take into account the class of operation, the output transformer primary impedance, or the plate voltages involved. For instance, an EL34, in class AB operation at 400V, with a 4K plate-to-plate primary impedance, would be biased at 40mA, while the same EL34 tube, used in a true class A circuit at 250V, might be biased at around 100mA."

8ohms is fine. 87db is low... However, this wont hurt the amp. All things being equal, higher efficiency is capable of better performance. High efficiency speakers also separate the men from the boys in terms of amp quality. Good sounding amps on low sensitivity speakers, often reveal their weaknesses on high sensitivity speakers. Low sensitivity speakers act like compressors. Shindo excels on high sensitivity.

Jonathan
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  #8  
Old 06-11-2013, 02:00 PM
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pitchperfect pitchperfect is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenSea View Post
Jonathan, in reguards to speakers, I am using a pair of CC34s and the Proac D18 which presents a very easy 8 ohm load at 87db, would this make the tubes run a lot harder and hotter than say a 10 ohm load or would I need to go to something much more efficent and even higher impedence. One of the things I have wondered is the tubes are biased at 60 mAs and taking to tube techs they feel its running at the edge even for a really well built Mullard .Also looking at Mullards spec sheet it seems to confirm the techs views.

Thank you for your time,
Ken
Hi Ken,

Shindo is running the CC34's in Class A, within the context of his unique circuit design, so 60ma isn't too extreme at all.

-M
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  #9  
Old 06-11-2013, 03:19 PM
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Jerome W Jerome W is offline
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I agree that tube rolling is a non sense for Shindo : Ken Shindo spent enough time himself to select very good tubes for his amps and preamps. Tube rolling starts when original tubes are tired as we're mine in the Apetite, and you bought a used unit from an individual and not the dealer : from what I was told, Shindo will not provide new NOS tubes for those.

For power cords, I think that Shindo amps are somehow immune to them. Exotic PCs do not make them sound better. Stick with the stock cords.

Of course, Shindo amps are made to be used with high impedance / high eff speakers. All the users, me included, who use them with other speakers do not hear them as they were voiced, and do this at their own risk.
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  #10  
Old 06-11-2013, 04:56 PM
Macnbone Macnbone is offline
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Thanks for starting this thread, Pronan, and for the informative and helpful responses thus far. - D
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