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  #11  
Old 05-29-2013, 09:39 PM
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Jerome W Jerome W is offline
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Ok, I will be the different voice here.....

Does someone can tell me what is the exact material of Shindo IC ?
I read on Matt's site " pure silver " while on many web posts, people say that it is indeed silver coated copper. An other scoop of "mystery" here....

I never tried Shindo or A23 ICs or speaker cables. And I won't. At least while I will still have non Shindo speakers.
I agree that Shindo cables should be preferred with Shindo gear, but only in the context of a full Shindo system, from source to speakers. Then, full voicing makes sense. For example, it makes sense that Shindo uses pure silver for speaker cables, when you think that for most listeners, Shindo speakers are a bit limited in frequency in the treble. Silver will reinforce treble presence and weight.

For someone using non Shindo speakers, then the "voicing" is failed and I see no reason why I would prefer them over my WW cables. I must say that I also tend to be more confident with established cable makers ( WW, Van den Hul, Kubala Sosna....) over cables " hand made " by gurus. What this " hand made " means by the way ? Soldering ? Most good cables on the market are terminated by hand.

Anyway to me cables fall roughly in 2 categories, no matter their price. Bad ones are harsh. Good ones are sweet. Differences between good and bad ones can be huge.
But differences between good ones are rather subtle and often do not justify the time spent for the quest and critical listening.
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  #12  
Old 05-30-2013, 02:11 AM
Cucumber_Jones Cucumber_Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome W View Post
Ok, I will be the different voice here.....

Does someone can tell me what is the exact material of Shindo IC ?
I read on Matt's site " pure silver " while on many web posts, people say that it is indeed silver coated copper. An other scoop of "mystery" here....

I never tried Shindo or A23 ICs or speaker cables. And I won't. At least while I will still have non Shindo speakers.
I agree that Shindo cables should be preferred with Shindo gear, but only in the context of a full Shindo system, from source to speakers. Then, full voicing makes sense. For example, it makes sense that Shindo uses pure silver for speaker cables, when you think that for most listeners, Shindo speakers are a bit limited in frequency in the treble. Silver will reinforce treble presence and weight.

For someone using non Shindo speakers, then the "voicing" is failed and I see no reason why I would prefer them over my WW cables. I must say that I also tend to be more confident with established cable makers ( WW, Van den Hul, Kubala Sosna....) over cables " hand made " by gurus. What this " hand made " means by the way ? Soldering ? Most good cables on the market are terminated by hand.

Anyway to me cables fall roughly in 2 categories, no matter their price. Bad ones are harsh. Good ones are sweet. Differences between good and bad ones can be huge.
But differences between good ones are rather subtle and often do not justify the time spent for the quest and critical listening.
Jerome - while that is all interesting you have never tried shindo or auditorium cables. When you do try them (which you should) then share your thoughts. Until then all you have is ideas and no conclusions.
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  #13  
Old 05-30-2013, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cucumber_Jones

Jerome - while that is all interesting you have never tried shindo or auditorium cables. When you do try them (which you should) then share your thoughts. Until then all you have is ideas and no conclusions.
True.
But time is not unlimited and it is impossible to "try" Shindo cables here. I could try A23 cables because I know Keith Aschenbrenner enough now and I'm sure that he could send me some to try.
But I cannot "try" everything that could improve my system. We have to follow a certain logic. What I say is that having Shindo gear does not mean necessarily that you "need" Shindo or A23 cables to have your gear performing at its best.
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  #14  
Old 05-30-2013, 04:25 AM
Cellindo Cellindo is offline
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The best IC cable I have experienced on my Monbrison is a Siltech Forbes Lake G6 SATT.
It is like Magic between the Shindo preamplifier and an Accuphase amp. Period!

I had Shindo silver cable in the past for many year. Its price is justified but it's not a Top contender for the best cable on the planet. Just my humble user opinion, here...
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  #15  
Old 05-30-2013, 11:20 AM
Shindoadict Shindoadict is offline
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Default Experience w/ A23 and Shindo

I presently use an IC Ocellia signature and I can say that I prefer the Ocellia to Shindo for this reason: best definition more focusing more air around the instruments and impact.

I'm listening to one of Ocellia signature Speaker cables in the near future.

All Ocellia cables are silver
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  #16  
Old 05-30-2013, 11:48 AM
Vinyljh Vinyljh is offline
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If you don't use Shindo or A23 cables, which you should because it does sound more correct- i.e. not as flashy with over the top definition or focusing that doesn't not exist in life- you should/must use cables terminated with Switchcraft RCA's that match the Switchcraft used in Shindo components. When you use these other cables- just one single time, you take a huge risk of deforming the low mass hot connector. Now impedance goes high on the connection and you begin to lose frequency extremes, dynamics and energy. I would say most preamps and amps that come to me from mix and match systems need all new jacks. Sometimes this is the case with Shindo or A23 users because they wiggle the jacks to remove them. Straight in and straight out is the only way to use a RCA jack.

In my opinion and experience- if other cables sound better, its simply showing a blockage in your system. EQing with cables is the wrong approach, fix the problem, don't put bandaids and eq's on it. In every case, when the weaknesses are removed, the Shindo or A23 cables sound best again.

Just my inexperienced opinion...

Jonathan
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  #17  
Old 05-30-2013, 02:38 PM
Cellindo Cellindo is offline
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A cable that will EQ the sound rendition is a horrible product that shall be avoided by all means.
A good cable doesn't impact the frequency response at all. A good cable instills life, dark black silence between notes, allows for tri dimentional soundstage with multilayers, is very neutral from one vinyl/CD to the other recording. And a good cable is super fast with note attacks just like for real live music.

Shindo cables have some of the above virtues, but not all of them ;-)

Ps: I started with Shindo in 2007, so some experience as well.
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Last edited by Cellindo; 05-30-2013 at 02:51 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-30-2013, 03:16 PM
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riesling riesling is offline
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Thanks Jonathan for bringing this in-all-compass-point-fleeing-discussion back to solid experience talk.

Somebody with deep experience once told me that Ken Shindo "thinks in chains", not in individual components. Using the same cable, be it Shindo or A23, throughout the whole chain, from the source (MC cartridge or CDP) over transformer and amplifiers to the loudspeakers, brings a lot.

I use A23 cables from A to Z and I am perfectly happy with this. My Shindo silver cables rest quietly in the drawer...and I am not getting nervous at all ;-)

As far as I know, A23 cables are also applied in Shindo systems (or chains:-) in Japan.

My humble opinion: Shindo and A23, two cables, two personalities, not two worlds.

Riesling or Chardonnay ? ... just be shure to choose the best winemakers!
;-)

Last edited by riesling; 05-30-2013 at 03:18 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-30-2013, 03:18 PM
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Jerome W Jerome W is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinyljh
If you don't use Shindo or A23 cables, which you should because it does sound more correct- i.e. not as flashy with over the top definition or focusing that doesn't not exist in life- you should/must use cables terminated with Switchcraft RCA's that match the Switchcraft used in Shindo components. When you use these other cables- just one single time, you take a huge risk of deforming the low mass hot connector. Now impedance goes high on the connection and you begin to lose frequency extremes, dynamics and energy. I would say most preamps and amps that come to me from mix and match systems need all new jacks. Sometimes this is the case with Shindo or A23 users because they wiggle the jacks to remove them. Straight in and straight out is the only way to use a RCA jack.

In my opinion and experience- if other cables sound better, its simply showing a blockage in your system. EQing with cables is the wrong approach, fix the problem, don't put bandaids and eq's on it. In every case, when the weaknesses are removed, the Shindo or A23 cables sound best again.

Just my inexperienced opinion...

Jonathan
Tone Imports
Jonathan,
What is the material of Shindo ICs ? Pure silver ?
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  #20  
Old 05-30-2013, 03:30 PM
NeilNZ NeilNZ is offline
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At the end of the day it doesn't matter what they are made from. Ken Shindo recommends his cables for his equipment as it is supposed to be a 'system'. Too many audiophiles do just as Vinyljh says, and that is to try and patch or bandaid their systems with other cables.
I have seen a few Shindo preamps with damaged RCA sockets due to guys using 'fancy' locking rca plugs or somesuch. Without fail all of these people have approached building up their systems in such haphazard ways that they lose sight of the goal.
Ultimately anyone can do what they want, but to realise the best out of any Shindo gear, follow the recommendations of the manufacturer, he does know best.
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