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  #11  
Old 12-17-2016, 01:44 AM
triode12 triode12 is offline
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Isn't the line stage of the ref Dac just the Ref5SEs without switching?
So your Ref 10 would beat the ref Dac.

On the other hand, ARC isn't know for the SQ of their DACs and SS amps. I'd be looking elsewhere.
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  #12  
Old 12-17-2016, 03:15 AM
enatai252 enatai252 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanarSpeakerFan View Post
Thanks for your comments. What preamp were you bypassing when you made the determination that the Ref DAC sounded superior running directly to the amps? What are the rest of the components in your system?

I own the ARC Ref 10 preamp and it would be a major negative if I found this to be the case in my system (Vandersteen 7 mono amps and speakers). I would question the redundancy and sonic degradation caused by the Ref DAC's volume control, which cannot be defeated, used in conjunction with a top notch preamp. I would probably purchase the Ref CD-9 instead of the Ref DAC if I found this to be the case with the Ref 10 preamp in my system.

Best,
Ken

I think Ref DAC is best suited for digital only front ends directly to amp. I say this primarily due to ergonomics- the ref DAC will not allow bypassing of preamp section and each time you turn on....I would need to turn volume up to 70 (which is about where ARC recommended for unity gain). Adding another preamp is redundant and would somewhat be like going from a DAC to a ref5se to the ref10

In my case I had a a moon 850p with ASRBasis phono and used the Woo WES amp for Stax headphones. I found the ref DAC sounded best directly into woo Wes rather than through the 850. For both SQ and ease of use. I disagree that the SQ of this unit is not high quality...the user interface is poor but sound is really good. I do prefer the dCS Rossini and Vivaldi units I now own to the ref DAC

Personal opinion is ref DAC was a product that just was not perfect for many applications and they no longer support the iPad app or the SW
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  #13  
Old 12-17-2016, 03:42 AM
Maxflo Maxflo is offline
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RefDac has option to fix volume on 66 level. So you do not need to correct volume every time you turn on the system. Agree the ARC apl is not perfect but you can work with others open apl available for music servers.
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  #14  
Old 12-17-2016, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enatai252 View Post
I think Ref DAC is best suited for digital only front ends directly to amp. I say this primarily due to ergonomics- the ref DAC will not allow bypassing of preamp section and each time you turn on....I would need to turn volume up to 70 (which is about where ARC recommended for unity gain). Adding another preamp is redundant and would somewhat be like going from a DAC to a ref5se to the ref10

In my case I had a a moon 850p with ASRBasis phono and used the Woo WES amp for Stax headphones. I found the ref DAC sounded best directly into woo Wes rather than through the 850. For both SQ and ease of use. I disagree that the SQ of this unit is not high quality...the user interface is poor but sound is really good. I do prefer the dCS Rossini and Vivaldi units I now own to the ref DAC

Personal opinion is ref DAC was a product that just was not perfect for many applications and they no longer support the iPad app or the SW
Thanks again for your comments. I'll take them under advisement. For the record, I never said the Ref DAC didn't have high sound quality. If it didn't sound terrific, I wouldn't be considering it for the digital source of my system. I agree that there would be some redundancy if I hooked the Ref DAC up to my Ref 10 preamp. However, the Ref CD-9 has the same 6 tube configuration as the Ref DAC (less volume control) and it is the most organic and analog sounding digital source I've ever heard. I will also have to give the ARC DAC 9 a listen because it eliminates some of the tube redundancy you spoke of (two dual triodes). The question is will it sound as analog-like as the Ref DAC and Ref CD-9.

Best,
Ken
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  #15  
Old 12-17-2016, 10:31 AM
enatai252 enatai252 is offline
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Originally Posted by Maxflo View Post
RefDac has option to fix volume on 66 level. So you do not need to correct volume every time you turn on the system. Agree the ARC apl is not perfect but you can work with others open apl available for music servers.

You can manually turn the volume up to 66 or any value but there is not an option to fix it there. At every power on you have to reset volume control and reset input you want. It does not allow either to be fixed
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  #16  
Old 12-17-2016, 10:35 AM
enatai252 enatai252 is offline
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Default ARC Ref CD-9 vs. Ref DAC

[QUOTE=PlanarSpeakerFan;820369For the record, I never said the Ref DAC didn't have high sound quality. If it didn't sound terrific, I wouldn't be considering it for the digital source of my system.




Best,

Ken[/QUOTE]


Planar

That SQ comment was meant for the response right above mine

Not directed at you
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  #17  
Old 12-17-2016, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by enatai252 View Post
Planar

That SQ comment was meant for the response right above mine

Not directed at you
Ok, thanks!

Ken
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  #18  
Old 12-17-2016, 11:26 AM
cleeds cleeds is offline
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Originally Posted by triode12 View Post
... On the other hand, ARC isn't know for the SQ of their DACs and SS amps. I'd be looking elsewhere.
I think ARC has made some extraordinary SS amplifiers. In particular: D-200, D-300.
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  #19  
Old 12-18-2016, 01:19 PM
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Sharp 1080 Sharp 1080 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlanarSpeakerFan View Post
Thanks again for your comments. I'll take them under advisement. For the record, I never said the Ref DAC didn't have high sound quality. If it didn't sound terrific, I wouldn't be considering it for the digital source of my system. I agree that there would be some redundancy if I hooked the Ref DAC up to my Ref 10 preamp. However, the Ref CD-9 has the same 6 tube configuration as the Ref DAC (less volume control) and it is the most organic and analog sounding digital source I've ever heard. I will also have to give the ARC DAC 9 a listen because it eliminates some of the tube redundancy you spoke of (two dual triodes). The question is will it sound as analog-like as the Ref DAC and Ref CD-9.

Best,
Ken
I use this system as a reference. It is at my local dealer. It has the Ref CD-9 (on the floor out of range) normally sitting next to the Dr Feikert TT and your Ref 10 preamp which I am thinking of trying in my system at home! In my opinion the two of them are symbiotic for a reason. I'm curious as to what you eventually decide on using?
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Last edited by Sharp 1080; 12-18-2016 at 01:25 PM.
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  #20  
Old 12-18-2016, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp 1080 View Post
I use this system as a reference. It is at my local dealer. It has the Ref CD-9 (on the floor out of range) normally sitting next to the Dr Feikert TT and your Ref 10 preamp which I am thinking of trying in my system at home! In my opinion the two of them are symbiotic for a reason. I'm curious as to what you eventually decide on using?
Thanks Sharp,

I change my mind at least twice a day. From what I've read, these two are extremely similar sonically. The choice will probably come down to flexibility and functionality. I am going to test them head-to-head at a dealer soon. I'll report back afterwards.

The Ref DAC is scheduled to be refreshed first in 2017, followed by the Ref CD-9. The update will be to the DAC 9 digital board from the current DAC 8 board. One thing I will be testing in my audition is if the Ref DAC sounds superior without an ARC Ref preamp in the system compared to with a Ref preamp. If the Ref DAC sounds superior without the preamp, I'll definitely get the Ref CD-9. I'm not a fan of non-defeatable volume controls on DACs.

And yes, the Ref 10 preamp is better than I could have ever dreamed!

Best,
Ken
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