Custom sub cables

[dhizzle]

Has anyone here made custom subwoofer cables with resistors, built into a voltage divider, in them so that you can hookup your JL into the high level speaker outs of your amp? I read about someone doing this, with the help from a JL tech, on the web somewhere.
Any thoughts?

[paazel]

Why not just buy a sub that can do this natively?

[Amfibius]

To answer your question: no, I haven't.

But I am curious what the benefits might be, over feeding it a preamp level signal?

[dhizzle]

My thinking was along the lines of REL's. Your amp imparts a certain sound signature to your speakers, weather it is laid back and warm or very detailed and analytical. So, if you ran a high level cable to your sub it would, in theory, be playing with the same signature as your speakers and should blend together more easily. If you run the line level from your preamp, the sub may be very detailed and the speakers very laid back or vice versa and the two may not blend as well.

Just thinking out loud and wondering if anyone has tried this approach or if it is even doable.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by dhizzle

My thinking was along the lines of REL's. Your amp imparts a certain sound signature to your speakers, weather it is laid back and warm or very detailed and analytical. So, if you ran a high level cable to your sub it would, in theory, be playing with the same signature as your speakers and should blend together more easily. If you run the line level from your preamp, the sub may be very detailed and the speakers very laid back or vice versa and the two may not blend as well.

Just thinking out loud and wondering if anyone has tried this approach or if it is even doable.

I agree.
I think REL's use of Neutron Speakon connections which see the same signal from your amplifier outputs as do your main speakers is one of the reasons these subs sound very good.

Jim

[GaryProtein]

I expect there are going to be people who disagree with me, BUT, while all your components have a sonic signature, once you divide the frequency spectrum, their sonic signature goes out the window, and the real sonic signature becomes what you dial into your crossover or processor, especially when talking about subwoofer frequencies. There isn't a sonic signature in the bass when you take the bottom one and a half octaves (approximately 20-60 Hz) out of context of the rest of the top eight and a half octaves (60-20,000 Hz).

Sure, different power amps and preamps will sound different when you listen to their full frequency ranges, but for the very bottom end, the amps will either have control over the woofer, and it will sound tight with distinct notes, or it will not have control, and have a boomy or continuously ringing bass like in Bob Marley or rap recordings where the rumble just goes on and on.

A JL sub can be fed right out of your preamp and they are self powered with high powered amps, so why would you want to power it by your lower powered main amps that are trying to accurately drive the rest of the frequency range? Having a subwoofer helps your main amp do a better job on the midrange and tweeters. Unless you are a bass nut and have the JL run full frequency (in the bass range) most people are going to adjust it with the 12dB or 48 dB/octave slope in the 30-60 Hz range anyway to blend seamlessly with their main speakers.

I believe you will achieve the best result with tried and true methods, maybe with a little tweak here and there, rather than trying to re-invent the wheel. I know there may be exceptions to what I say next, but if nobody is doing it, maybe there is a reason.

Maybe you should consider a NON self powered subwoofer if your desire is to hook it up to your main amp outputs or to purchase another main amp like you presently use.

[dhizzle]

Originally Posted by GaryProtein

I expect there are going to be people who disagree with me, BUT, while all your components have a sonic signature, once you divide the frequency spectrum, their sonic signature goes out the window, and the real sonic signature becomes what you dial into your crossover or processor, especially when talking about subwoofer frequencies. There isn't a sonic signature in the bass when you take the bottom one and a half octaves (approximately 20-60 Hz) out of context of the rest of the top eight and a half octaves (60-20,000 Hz).

Sure, different power amps and preamps will sound different when you listen to their full frequency ranges, but for the very bottom end, the amps will either have control over the woofer, and it will sound tight with distinct notes, or it will not have control, and have a boomy or continuously ringing bass like in Bob Marley or rap recordings where the rumble just goes on and on.

A JL sub can be fed right out of your preamp and they are self powered with high powered amps, so why would you want to power it by your lower powered main amps that are trying to accurately drive the rest of the frequency range? Having a subwoofer helps your main amp do a better job on the midrange and tweeters. Unless you are a bass nut and have the JL run full frequency (in the bass range) most people are going to adjust it with the 12dB or 48 dB/octave slope in the 30-60 Hz range anyway to blend seamlessly with their main speakers.

I believe you will achieve the best result with tried and true methods, maybe with a little tweak here and there, rather than trying to re-invent the wheel. I know there may be exceptions to what I say next, but if nobody is doing it, maybe there is a reason.

Maybe you should consider a NON self powered subwoofer if your desire is to hook it up to your main amp outputs or to purchase another main amp like you presently use.

I already have the JL sub and I do plan on hooking it up the way it was intended, I was just curious. It does make since that the lower ranges aren't as effected by sonic signatures as the uppers, as you mentioned. my thoughts were that my tube amp isn't going to be able to control the bass in my speakers near as well as the amp in the sub is going to be able to control it. In other words, my speakers are going to have slow/uncontrolled bass and my sub will have fast/tight bass. I guess if I get the crossover set right it probably won't be an issue.
That is why I started this thread, to get the thoughts and opinions of others. So, I do appreciate your thoughts and explanations.

[GaryProtein]

While your MC275 won't have bass as tight as a MC2301 or transistor high powered amp, it certainly will produce delicious lows in frequencies above the JL subwoofer. It sounds like you've got a great system.

[dhizzle]

Originally Posted by GaryProtein

While your MC275 won't have bass as tight as a MC2301 or transistor high powered amp, it certainly will produce delicious lows in frequencies above the JL subwoofer. It sounds like you've got a great system.

It's slowly coming together, thanks to great advice from everyone here on AA.

[Whart]

I may be tripping~ thought I had posted a response to you on this when i first joined the site a couple weeks ago, but anyway, FWIW, the Avantgarde Duo is set up so you can feed the powered woofers either from the outputs of the midrange tweeter amp(s) via speaker cable type screw down connectors, or through line level inputs from the preamp. The thinking is precisely as you described: to impart the same sonic signature on the woofer signal as exists on the upper range horns. I have not tried (although thought about) experimenting with the line level inputs.
The Lamm ML 2 sounds wonderfully deep for a 'little' SET tube amp. But, I still have integration problems between the horn mid/tweet and the dynamic (cone) woofer- a discontinuity that i attribute to the fundamentally different nature of the drivers. (I used to have the same problem integrating cone woofers with electrostatic panels- the 'stats' were much 'faster' sounding than the woofers, which sounded dull by comparison).
To your question: (this is what i thought i had previously posted), Joe Kubala made me a set of speaker cables that run first to the midrange horn- no Xover- and then 'up' to the tweeter and down to the woofer, from an output off each Lamm mono amp. His cables are terrific and not stratospherically priced.