When’s the D4 coming?

[ti33er]

D4 can only be improved sonically by levelling out that ridiculous intentional 10Khz peak and making the D4 tweeter linear. I paid to have mine measured anechoic-ally by a professional and the true D3 tweeter response is factually poor …we’ve all been had with the D3 I’m afraid; I don’t care how people argue their merits as I’ve seen the truth as to why they are so bright - fortunately I was manufactured an external crossover (fix) and now they sound normal …I’d only consider buying D4 if they measured straight, which I bet they might so they can sell us all an ‘improvement’

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by ti33er

D4 can only be improved sonically by levelling out that ridiculous intentional 10Khz peak and making the D4 tweeter linear. ’

The peak is neither intentional or indeed actually real. Typically, all non-isotropic radiators exhibit increasing directivity with frequency, and that's the case with the diamond dome tweeter, as indeed it is with all tweeters. B&W chose not to correct the on-axis response with additional components in the crossover, but if you listen 20 degrees off axis and a typical 3m distance the peak is almost as unmeasurable as it is inaudible. Importantly, the purity of the tweeter is preserved by keeping the crossover as simple as possible.

[ti33er]

I don’t agree I’m afraid, after witnessing this with someone that really knows Loudspeaker design. He allowed me to compare mine to his reference models (full range and a bookshelf) one of which had a 0.5db tolerance within the entire audio band; the D3 came back bright

His measurements don’t lie, he had very sophisticated equipment which I trust more so than my ears …now that I have a modification on my 805D3, which in turn measures a lot flatter, they actually sound natural…not like sandpaper :-)

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by ti33er

His measurements don’t lie, he had very sophisticated equipment which I trust more so than my ears …now that I have a modification on my 805D3, which in turn measures a lot flatter, they actually sound natural…not like sandpaper :-)

I agree that the 805D3 is a bit hot, but it's because the tweeter is a couple of dB too sensitive relative to the mid / woofer. It's because the design team decided against padding with a resistor.

However, the rest of the 800 series don't exhibit that characteristic.

[ti33er]

Okay fine I can agree on the 805D3 by seeing the measurements and limitations of the Drivers recently, but the 804D3 also sounds bright (I thought worse somehow which is why I went for the 805 out of the two) and I’d listened to the 803D3 at a friends place, which all have a similar treble brightness (803D3 a bit lesser than the latter) …I can’t truthfully comment on 802/800D3 as I’ve not listened to them critically so maybe they engineered these larger models to sound ‘right’

With the mod I’ve got now, the 805D3 sound ‘right’ …the tweeter is down -4db and near level when measured (slopes down subtly 1db after 12khz) but is now a pleasure to listen to - you’d have to really pad your room out (expensively) to absorb the 10Khz peak by original design; which I nearly started doing - thank Goodness I don’t have to anymore

[ti33er]

@Art Vandelay …did you work at Bowers, or get involved with the Design Team? You seem to know a bit about the decisions they made? Respectfully yours (I like to learn when it comes to the engineering chat) :-)

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by ti33er

@Art Vandelay …did you work at Bowers, or get involved with the Design Team? You seem to know a bit about the decisions they made? Respectfully yours (I like to learn when it comes to the engineering chat) :-)

No, I have no relationship with B&W. My comments are derived either from what I've read or what I've observed / deducted as an owner of 800 series.

Fwiw, my background is engineering but it's more RF than AF, although hi-fi audio is a primary hobby for me.

Currently I'm still listening to 800D2's but intend to upgrade soon when my house extension and new listening room is completed, so D4's will definitely be on the audition list.

[Indytown]

Originally Posted by ti33er

Okay fine I can agree on the 805D3 by seeing the measurements and limitations of the Drivers recently, but the 804D3 also sounds bright (I thought worse somehow which is why I went for the 805 out of the two) and I’d listened to the 803D3 at a friends place, which all have a similar treble brightness (803D3 a bit lesser than the latter) …I can’t truthfully comment on 802/800D3 as I’ve not listened to them critically so maybe they engineered these larger models to sound ‘right’

With the mod I’ve got now, the 805D3 sound ‘right’ …the tweeter is down -4db and near level when measured (slopes down subtly 1db after 12khz) but is now a pleasure to listen to - you’d have to really pad your room out (expensively) to absorb the 10Khz peak by original design; which I nearly started doing - thank Goodness I don’t have to anymore

To my ears the 803D3 sounded the most relaxed with a more holographic airy sound field out of all 3; 800, 802, 803.

This is without doing sound measurements.

Could have been the rooms.

[ti33er]

Unfortunately I can’t see a way to attach images on this thread, or I’d show you the evidence of how the D3 tweeter behaves - we then directly compared to a Beryllium tweeter which was a lot more linear from 8khz - 20khz and smoother

The 803D3 was definitely a bit better integrated than 805/804D3, but still brighter than it ought to be for a natural sound and I’m pretty sure why if it’s the same Tweeter for all 800-D3

[dkorbal]

Try going here. I would like to see the info.