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Subwoofers 80hz and Down under!

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Old 03-04-2018, 01:39 AM
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I've had a pair of Britannia B2s for several years and finally got an opportunity to secure a pair of 212SE for my 2 channel room . I'll get some pics up when I have everything cleaned up but here's a question I've longed to ask but never got around to really experimenting.

Most everyone knows that the Neutrik speakon connection is the preferred method according to the engineers at REL and I have no doubt they have done their homework. My problem (and this goes back to a Storm I used to have as well as the Britannias and now the 212SEs)......I get practically NO volume using the speakon connection. I've tried literally everything, it's not a room setup issue.....as soon as I use the line level inputs or the LFE input, they immediately come to life and I have to turn them way down. Now enter the 212SEs.....these things are huge and I was worried that I may cause structural damage if I didn't have them dialed in properly. It turns out the same thing....using the Neutrik connection I get practically no volume......I have the volume turned up about 5 or 6 clicks away from max and still it was very low and you could feel/see the cones barely moving. No volume problems with the low level inputs. At this point I have to wonder if it has something to do with the MC 402 amplifier since this is the only amp I've ever had with all 3 REL models.

I'm familiar with all of the hookup controversy but am sure that I'm hooking them up properly as the MC 402 is a differential balanced amplifier and that's specifically noted in the manual. The 212SE manual even warns that you may have to disconnect either the yellow or red lead in case the output was too high to dial it back a bit. Well that's certainly not the issue in my case.

I'm wondering if it has something to do with the autoformer or some design issue with the dual differential design of these McIntosh amplifiers? It seems like the RELs are not seeing enough signal out of the amplifiers outputs to drive the subs. Has anyone run into this or am I overlooking something very simple?

- Buck
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Old 03-04-2018, 10:30 AM
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Buck,
Congratulations on the pair of REL 212/SE. I'm seriously considering a pair of 212/SE's with my Tannoy Canterbury's and will be looking forward to your photos and listening impressions. Hope you get the connection figured out quickly.
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Old 03-04-2018, 12:17 PM
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When I had the REL G1 I and 1.2Ks I connected it as the photo below shows. I did not have a pair of subs as REL recommends. You have to connect the "black" wire to a chassis ground screw. I have no idea why you are getting low output.

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Old 03-04-2018, 01:05 PM
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I spent two days last week auditioning Tannoy Westminster GR's with a pair of REL 212/SE's. I looked at the connection but not close enough to be any help. I do remember it was the SpeakOn connector but since my mind was on the Tannoy's I didn't spend any time focusing on the amp connections.
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HT: McIntosh. Tannoy. REL. Oppo.

Last edited by tweet; 03-16-2018 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 03-04-2018, 01:15 PM
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I previously had REL Britannia B2, B3, and R305 and can only offer some suggestions..........................

Did you test using low frequency test tones? http://realtraps.com/test-cd.htm
Did you try raising your crossover settings?
Did you try a different Neutrik cable?
Did you try the other channel amp connection?

Best of luck!
Ron
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Old 03-04-2018, 01:19 PM
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Jim - Yes, that's the exact way I tried with my Britannia B2s.....you had to attach the black wire to a chassis screw. They must have changed something with the design of the S series because in the manual, it specifically shows to wire them the way you have above except now it says to float or not connect the black wire to anything at all. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the fact I'm trying to run stereo (L and R) and not dual subs......I have no idea at this point? I just assume there has to some compatibility issue here because there is no way in the world a pair of 212 SEs should have that low of an output. I've done some searching on the web and it seems most people have the opposite problem and have to do something to lower volume output.

- Buck
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Library: Speakers: Avalon Acoustics Isis, Subwoofers: (2) REL Acoustics 212SE Amplification: D’agostino Momentum preamplifier, D’agostino S250 stereo amplifier Digital: Ayre C-5xeMP SACD/DVD player/transport, DCS Rossini DAC/streamer. Analog: VPI Classic Signature, Dynavector XX2 mkII cartridge. Phono Preamp: Audio Research Ref 2 SE
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Old 03-04-2018, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppyhome View Post
I previously had REL Britannia B2, B3, and R305 and can only offer some suggestions..........................

Did you test using low frequency test tones? http://realtraps.com/test-cd.htm
Did you try raising your crossover settings?
Did you try a different Neutrik cable?
Did you try the other channel amp connection?

Best of luck!
Ron
.

Hi Ron, yes, I actually did all of those things...I have a Velodyne SMS-1 subwoofer management system that I use the mic for to see what kind of response I was getting (I just used the mic/software, the subs weren't going through the unit). I have tried the other things as well, I tried both the 4 ohm and 8 ohm taps on the 402 with no difference. The only thing I haven't tried is a totally different 2 channel amplifier...don't have easy access to one, I'd have to ask my dealer to borrow one which I guess is a possibility.

- Buck
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Library: Speakers: Avalon Acoustics Isis, Subwoofers: (2) REL Acoustics 212SE Amplification: D’agostino Momentum preamplifier, D’agostino S250 stereo amplifier Digital: Ayre C-5xeMP SACD/DVD player/transport, DCS Rossini DAC/streamer. Analog: VPI Classic Signature, Dynavector XX2 mkII cartridge. Phono Preamp: Audio Research Ref 2 SE
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Old 03-04-2018, 03:49 PM
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Just a thought, how efficient are your speakers?
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Old 03-04-2018, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick U View Post
Just a thought, how efficient are your speakers?
Average........4 ohm, 89 dB if I remember correctly but the speaker load should have nothing to do with the REL speakon hookup. Remember, I can hook them up to whichever tap I like (I've tried them all BTW) with the same results.

- Buck
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Library: Speakers: Avalon Acoustics Isis, Subwoofers: (2) REL Acoustics 212SE Amplification: D’agostino Momentum preamplifier, D’agostino S250 stereo amplifier Digital: Ayre C-5xeMP SACD/DVD player/transport, DCS Rossini DAC/streamer. Analog: VPI Classic Signature, Dynavector XX2 mkII cartridge. Phono Preamp: Audio Research Ref 2 SE
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Old 03-04-2018, 09:06 PM
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I may send REL a tech support email to see if they have any experience with users and the McIntosh quad balanced power amplifiers. I haven't done any more experimenting today, but unless there is another way to achieve gain from the speakon hookup I don't know what else to do.

- Buck
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Library: Speakers: Avalon Acoustics Isis, Subwoofers: (2) REL Acoustics 212SE Amplification: D’agostino Momentum preamplifier, D’agostino S250 stereo amplifier Digital: Ayre C-5xeMP SACD/DVD player/transport, DCS Rossini DAC/streamer. Analog: VPI Classic Signature, Dynavector XX2 mkII cartridge. Phono Preamp: Audio Research Ref 2 SE
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