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Subwoofers 80hz and Down under!

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Old 12-12-2016, 05:18 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
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Default SVS SB16 compared to JL Audio F113v2

This is the continuation of a thread I started in the Revel section. I think it's probably better suited to this section so I've moved the conversation here. Here is a link to the initial discussion LINK

My comparison of these products and their suitability to my priorities is somewhat clearer and was made more quickly by far than I had anticipated. Of course, my observations and conclusions will not be the same for all rooms or all tastes. But for me, the differences between the SVS SB16 and the JL Audio F113v2 can be quantified fairly clearly. It should be noted that those of us who believe a break in period is useful to assess final performance may wish to wait for a forthcoming update as my brand new F113v2 is being compared to the SB16 that has had more time in use. I had planned to wait before writing this, but the differences are marked enough out of the box to post initial impressions I think I can stand by.

Plenty has been inked about the JL Fathoms over the years so I won't rehash what you can easily find elsewhere. The SVS SB16s are new to the market so I'll spend more time on them. The SB 16 is a sealed enclosure with a 16" woofer of heroic dimensions. It has an 8" ! voice coil and massive magnet structure with a claimed 65mm of excursion. The voice coil is overhung with a unique motor structure. For more info on that, visit SVS' website. The amplifier (Class D) delivers 1500 watts RMS with peak output to 5000 watts. It is very well executed in gloss black, impressively weighty at 130 pounds or so and is extremely well finished. I find no important difference in actual fit or finish quality but will note I like the way the JL's amp looks with it's heat sinking and terrific finish. It's a guy thing. The JL's external packaging/shipping is more sophisticated but both products are very well protected for shipping. Included with the SB16 are a remote control and a very handy and comprehensive control app that can be installed on your phone or pad (android or IOS). The SVS SB16 sells for $2000 delivered to your door and is backed by a five year warranty and a full refund if returned for any reason within 45 days. SVS has a battery of other customer benefits and has been a pleasure to deal with. See photo for size differences between these two top line devices.



SVS SB16 In Use

Off the bat, if your number one measures of performance are deepest extension and highest output at a relative bargain price, look no further than the SVS. It has tremendous output for a sealed sub, or any subwoofer for that matter. I initially placed the sub in a corner outboard of my left Salon2. My room is 22 by 16 with 9.5 foot ceilings or about 3300cf. Leaving aside questions of smoothing overall frequency response or nulls, a single SB 16 is all and more than I would ever need for music as far as level or extension is concerned.

However I couldn't obtain an integration that made me completely happy with music with the sub located in the corner. The output from this amazing beast simply overwhelmed the room at higher levels. At lower levels performance in excess to the exceptional "naked" bass of the Salon2s proved difficult to achieve with my limited experience in this room. Once I moved the sub out of the corner and onto the long wall about two feet in front of the main speakers (woofer firing along the long wall), things snapped into much better focus. I set the low pass filter at 24dB per octave (matches Revel's crossovers) and 31Hz. With judicious use of the level control, I obtained satisfying and rich bass with incredible extension and power depending on how hard I wanted to push the sub. Watching BluRays or streamed films, sound effects, cannon fire, sci fi cockamamie and door slams were shockingly strong.

The app is excellent giving full control of every parameter. There's a very nice user adjustable three band parametric eq, full level and low pass control, variable room compensation, presets, and more and all are accessible from your listening position. This is in contrast to the JL which has to be adjusted at the front panel but which includes sophisticated DARO room compensation and a calibrated mic.

JL Fathom F113v2

OK, so how did the JL fare against this impressive newcomer? Quite well actually. Since so many professional reviewers have written about the JL I'll be brief here. It was a lot easier to dial the JL into my room. Placed exactly where the SVS finally landed and out of the box, bass from the JL was tighter, more tuneful and more musical, at least as far as I judge bass tone. I'm pretty sure the JL will not outperform the SVS for home theater work, or perhaps match it for extension where reference level output and plumbing subharmonic depths are key factors. And in a larger room, the SVS may have other advantages I can't judge in my space. However, for music, where "tightness" the impression of speed and tonal distinctions rule for me, the JL was audibly superior in my room with my system and considerably easier to get into the ballpark from the outset. No doubt my experience with the SVS (the first sub I've had in this room) made setup of the JL a lot easier, so bear that in mind.
In fact, the JL may also work in the corner where the SVS was not as happy and I plan to try that out. Nonetheless, in the end, the JL edged out the SVS mainly in my subjective judgments of tonal definition, control and the perception of "speed."


SO?
If you are seeking a dual purpose sub with a primary emphasis on HT rather than music, or if budget is a consideration, the SVS SB16 is probably the way to go. You will not be disappointed and the fit and finish plus the customer service is beyond reproach.
However, if you seek a sub primarily for music where absolute output and extension to 15 Hz are not primary goals, then JL is unquestionably my choice. Both subs are great, but the JL is more musical in my system and the room correction makes integration easier for a klutz like me. The slightly smaller footprint is a plus in my case but some people do think bigger is better. The differences don't objectively add up to twice the price list to list that the JL costs, but there's enough in it for me to justify the difference. Others are more than just entitled to a different opinion.




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Last edited by Pampero; 12-12-2016 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 12-12-2016, 05:54 PM
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Lew.......You may want to consider the Sound Anchor Subwoofer Stand for Fathom f113.
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:09 PM
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What is the cost of the JL F113v2?
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricjor1 View Post
What is the cost of the JL F113v2?
http://www.jlaudio.com/f113-gloss-ho...bwoofers-96137
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricjor1 View Post
What is the cost of the JL F113v2?
https://youtu.be/xEkIou3WFnM

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Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1/D1 STACK, G01X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1 CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1ís, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
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Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E650 INTEGRATED, DP560 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3ís, CANTON REF K5ís, SILENZIO, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WIREWORLD GOLD CABLES
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:46 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
Lew.......You may want to consider the Sound Anchor Subwoofer Stand for Fathom f113.
Dan, that makes good sense.

I only just fired off the JL today for the first time, but it is doing for me what I'd hoped a sub would do in my system whereas the SVS has been harder to tame. My wife agrees. Unfortunately because I only have two (long enough) balanced cables I can't run the two off by just switching between the two, which my Mc system allows. Good old McIntosh....plenty of connections!

I have ordered the cable and connectors to make another pair of cables, and they will also be longer so I can get to move these things around to additional locations. Need to do your patented sub crawl! It is patented isn't it?
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Last edited by Pampero; 12-14-2016 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 12-12-2016, 06:48 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricjor1 View Post
What is the cost of the JL F113v2?
Am I allowed to just come out and say it? List in gloss black is $4500. You see different prices for them wherever you look on the web, but that's what JL has posted on their site.

Ivan's hint should be observed, he's all over these subs.
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Last edited by Pampero; 12-12-2016 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtroo View Post
Tim... that is the older discontinued F113.
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MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A250 AMPS, C3850 PRE-AMP, DP950 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC950 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-58 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
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MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO, FORTRESS SEATING, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1/D1 STACK, G01X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1 CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1ís, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Bryston/Esoteric System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WIREWORLD PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E650 INTEGRATED, DP560 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3ís, CANTON REF K5ís, SILENZIO, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WIREWORLD GOLD CABLES
Bryston Active System: BP26 PRE-AMP, MPS2 POWER SUPPLY, BAX-1 CROSSOVER, BDA-3 DAC, BDP-3 PLAYER, BCD-3 CD PLAYER, BIT15(2), MODEL T ACTIVE SPEAKERS, 21B3 CUBED AMPS, SILENZIO, TARGET RACK, WIREWORLD SILVER CABLES

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Old 12-12-2016, 07:14 PM
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I wonder how much of the differences were because one sub was a 13" while the other was a 16"? I wonder how a 13" SVS would have compared?
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Old 12-12-2016, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterlu View Post
Tim... that is the older discontinued F113.
Oops. I was in a hurry at work. That is what makes one the Master, is it not?
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Amplifiers: McIntosh 1.2 Kw
Preamp: Esoteric C03
Speakers: Salon2 with F113v2 x 2
Analog: VPI Avenger Reference with Ortofon A95 and Esoteric E03 phonostage
Digital: Silenzio and Esoteric K03-x and G02
Power Management: PS Audio P10 x 2, P5
Cables: WW PE7 SC & IC, Furutech Flux-50 Filters
Rack: HRS SXR Signature
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