Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry

[James Tanner - Bryston]

Audiophiles’ Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry - CE Pro Blog Article from CE Pro

[ronenash]

My initial response was without reading through the entire article. reading through it now I must say I disagree to most of the things said.

[Amfibius]

And I absolutely disagree with that.

Actually, there is a huge disconnect between audiophiles and engineers (especially engineers in the AES). Many in the AES believe that CD is perfect, that hi-res is not needed, that the importance of jitter is overstated, that high sample rate MP3 is indistinguishable from CD, that vinyl is a waste of time, that all amps sound the same, and they certainly don't believe in cable or much of what we believe in.

I can easily hear the difference between amps - as far as I am concerned, anybody who can't hear that difference isn't discerning enough. That's fine if you have untrained ears. But it is not OK if you purport to be a professional and you go around bagging people who claim to hear a difference. We have all seen these audio messiahs go around forums (thankfully not AA) telling everyone that they are deluding themselves because double blind tests show no difference. You think your McIntosh sounds good? It's all placebo. It is indistinguishable from a Yamaha HT receiver. Such people do not give any respect, and therefore deserve zero respect.

That article really makes me LOL. To take an example, Deutsche Grammofon had the most important artists of the 20th century record for them. And what did they do between 1980-2000? Produce recordings that sound muffled and lacking in excitement and dynamics. An entire generation of artists have their recording legacy preserved in sound that is inferior to the 1960's-70's. Even DGG themselves must have acknowledged this, because more recent DGG recordings sound great.

And let's not get started on the loudness wars. I mean, look at this:

Do they think musicians say to themselves, “let’s make a sucky recording?”

Why ... YES! The catalogs abound with examples of sucky recordings! Why is it that audiophile labels usually produce better sounding discs? Why is it that large labels are unable to match the quality of boutique producers? Why? Because they are preoccupied with maxing out the loudness level on their discs to make them "sound" better, sacrificing dynamic range in the process, that's why!

Why should we lay supine as the AES and recording industry hurtles us towards a future of lo-res compressed digital and lowest common denominator sound? F&&& that, as consumers we have to tell them what we want. And yes, I do my bit to introduce people into the hobby and show them the benefit of good sound.

So I say - bah, humbug.

[GaryProtein]

Amfibius, I agree with most of what you say, but I also agree with a few points in the article. Many engineers, especially those of the "iPod generation," have no idea what real musical instruments sound like.

When I assembled my present system, I quickly realized that very high end audio comes with a horrible curse, almost making one sometimes wonder why in the world we spent so much money on the system (five figures, six figures, seven?!?!? figures). But it gets even worse. The higher the high end, the bigger the curse.

Having the expectation of being blown away by the beautiful sound of music, and making you feel like the performers were either in your living room or you were in the concert hall, you discover how terrible so many recordings really are -- especially, but not limited to popular music.

[bart]

I listen more to music than in the past partly because in the last years, I discovered audiophile recordings, partly because my system is so much more revealing.
When I compare my older discs (indeed, often the ones from '80 till the end of the 90s) to my new (SA)CD's, the former often sound bad enough to put them in the garage, ready for the bin.
And I don't even talk about some new pop releases (like Coldplay's last album): downright terrible!
So I'm afraid I have to agree with Keith...

[kfr01]

Originally Posted by Amfibius

And I absolutely disagree with that.

Actually, there is a huge disconnect between audiophiles and engineers (especially engineers in the AES). Many in the AES believe that CD is perfect, that hi-res is not needed, that the importance of jitter is overstated, that high sample rate MP3 is indistinguishable from CD, that vinyl is a waste of time, that all amps sound the same, and they certainly don't believe in cable or much of what we believe in.

I can easily hear the difference between amps - as far as I am concerned, anybody who can't hear that difference isn't discerning enough. That's fine if you have untrained ears. But it is not OK if you purport to be a professional and you go around bagging people who claim to hear a difference. We have all seen these audio messiahs go around forums (thankfully not AA) telling everyone that they are deluding themselves because double blind tests show no difference. You think your McIntosh sounds good? It's all placebo. It is indistinguishable from a Yamaha HT receiver. Such people do not give any respect, and therefore deserve zero respect.

That article really makes me LOL. To take an example, Deutsche Grammofon had the most important artists of the 20th century record for them. And what did they do between 1980-2000? Produce recordings that sound muffled and lacking in excitement and dynamics. An entire generation of artists have their recording legacy preserved in sound that is inferior to the 1960's-70's. Even DGG themselves must have acknowledged this, because more recent DGG recordings sound great.

And let's not get started on the loudness wars. I mean, look at this:

Why ... YES! The catalogs abound with examples of sucky recordings! Why is it that audiophile labels usually produce better sounding discs? Why is it that large labels are unable to match the quality of boutique producers? Why? Because they are preoccupied with maxing out the loudness level on their discs to make them "sound" better, sacrificing dynamic range in the process, that's why!

Why should we lay supine as the AES and recording industry hurtles us towards a future of lo-res compressed digital and lowest common denominator sound? F&&& that, as consumers we have to tell them what we want. And yes, I do my bit to introduce people into the hobby and show them the benefit of good sound.

So I say - bah, humbug.

+1.

The smartest of my engineering friends will quickly admit that there is much more that they don't know than do know. They continue to excel in their careers and almost universally love and appreciate hi-fi equipment if they also appreciate music.

The ones that think they know everything and that put down other possible viewpoints are almost universally stagnant in their careers. These are the same guys that try to end every argument with "blind testing!" and think that nothing could possibly blind test better than their latest big box receiver, lossy music, and Paradigm speakers. They call us fools for spending money on the finer things (whether audio, fine food, fine wine, you name it).

I've all but given up with the close-minded set, but will continue to be a happy advocate for preserving and reproducing the music in as much detail as possible.

[Doug Lax]

Originally Posted by Amfibius

And I absolutely disagree with that.

Actually, there is a huge disconnect between audiophiles and engineers (especially engineers in the AES). Many in the AES believe that CD is perfect, that hi-res is not needed, that the importance of jitter is overstated, that high sample rate MP3 is indistinguishable from CD, that vinyl is a waste of time, that all amps sound the same, and they certainly don't believe in cable or much of what we believe in.

I can easily hear the difference between amps - as far as I am concerned, anybody who can't hear that difference isn't discerning enough. That's fine if you have untrained ears. But it is not OK if you purport to be a professional and you go around bagging people who claim to hear a difference. We have all seen these audio messiahs go around forums (thankfully not AA) telling everyone that they are deluding themselves because double blind tests show no difference. You think your McIntosh sounds good? It's all placebo. It is indistinguishable from a Yamaha HT receiver. Such people do not give any respect, and therefore deserve zero respect.

That article really makes me LOL. To take an example, Deutsche Grammofon had the most important artists of the 20th century record for them. And what did they do between 1980-2000? Produce recordings that sound muffled and lacking in excitement and dynamics. An entire generation of artists have their recording legacy preserved in sound that is inferior to the 1960's-70's. Even DGG themselves must have acknowledged this, because more recent DGG recordings sound great.

And let's not get started on the loudness wars. I mean, look at this:



Why ... YES! The catalogs abound with examples of sucky recordings! Why is it that audiophile labels usually produce better sounding discs? Why is it that large labels are unable to match the quality of boutique producers? Why? Because they are preoccupied with maxing out the loudness level on their discs to make them "sound" better, sacrificing dynamic range in the process, that's why!

Why should we lay supine as the AES and recording industry hurtles us towards a future of lo-res compressed digital and lowest common denominator sound? F&&& that, as consumers we have to tell them what we want. And yes, I do my bit to introduce people into the hobby and show them the benefit of good sound.

So I say - bah, humbug.

+1

[JemHadar]

Both sides count among them parties or individuals that are guilty as charged...from "laws of physics defying" ignorants to downright "snake oil" frauds and everything in between.

Personally I don't care much for the moniker "Audiophile"...I don't even know what it means or what it stands for.

I would like to believe that for the most part, people with integrity and passion are combining a love for music with a business...because at the end of the day...it is a business.

With regard to the elitists...."what goes around comes around" and it is best to ignore them if you are offended by their attitude...hey...it is a free world remember.

The tone of the article is a little on the whining side...and the suggestion that audiophiles should support the business is too ridiculous for words....kind of putting the cart before the horse.

Innovate, change your business model, offer value propositions that customers want.

...as the old adage goes "we customers vote with our wallets".

If the majority is happy with MP3...no doubt someone will cater for those who prefer recordings with dynamics.

If you cannot find your audience or market, even if it is a niche market..you shouldn't be in business.

[PHC1]

I am with Amfibius on this one. Respect? Show me your work that I should give you respect for first. I always give credit where credit is due, plenty of talented recording engineers out there and many who are not, just like anything else in life.

[jwhite613]

It's not just audiophiles, Neil Young has no respect for digital music!