Furman over Panamax?

[jdandy]

kamiraa.......Welcome to Audio Aficionado.

Nice explanation of the Furman and Panamax models.

Don't forget to make a post in the Free Subscriber give-away thread here:

http://www.audioaficionado.org/gener...enter-win.html

[kamiraa]

Originally Posted by Thebenz

Wow, excellent information. What I'm trying to figure out is if I should buy surge protection. I have a Panamax 5100. Should I run that to the outlet and buy a surge protection type unit off of the panamax? (Like your Furman example?)

Chris

For Surge "Protection", your Panamax 5100 is currently doing that.

The 5100 does not have much capacity for major current draw, it does not regulate power (just passes it after the filter stages).

The functions your 5100 does perform is undervoltage (under 90 volts), over voltage (over 142), and current surge protection (up to 90k Amps)

So no, don't plug in anything into that panamax, just the loads.

If you want to step up to something else there are hundreds of great solutions on this forum. Your upgrade path would be going into something with a bigger current reserve, better filtration, and voltage regulation.

[tdelahanty]

Originally Posted by kamiraa

Your correct it's what is called an auto-transformer with a microcontroller behind it.

Since I don't have their schematics I can only speculate how I would typically implement this design.

Within the transformers are inductors (which resist the change of current instantly). When not enough current is available (current limiting) voltage will decay. What the auto-transformer does is fire off "stages" of constant current supplies, until it is about to overshoot, then it will shut down that stage (probably shunt it). It will keep playing this game very quickly to perform the COARSE voltage regulation, which will attempt to regulate the bus even under max current draw situations.

You can go further with this design, and have a secondary form of regulation. Remember they are also using this transformer as a method to isolate noise. When you are clean, you can implement other strategy.



But more importantly I wanted to touch on your second point. I don't know why this is. A local retail store running McIntosh monoblocks to B&W 802d, powered by a furman reference it20 mentioned the same thing to me. They said it sounded not as lively then when powered by the wall outlet.

I'd love to do some data logging and see whats really going on in that situation, but I don't have big monoblocks (yet), only a big Denon AVR-4520ci powering everything.

A lot of people in the audio world represent "feelings and perceptions". But as an electrical engineer anything with a signal should allow me to characterize to envelop this response. Then it would just involve going back to the drawing board to produce this response.

In something simple as a power conditioner vs. amp I would guess that something in the filtration is blocking current flow for these instantaneous changes. Who knows, but I'm intrigued!

I thought about buying the SPR20i and spoke to Furman extensively. This unit does not employ a true isolation transformer. It simply is an inductor across the line, AC is applied down the inductor (xx amount of turns) so voltage can be raised or lowered. Unfortunately I can't remember which solid-state device is used to select the appropriate tap. The SPR20i also uses Furman's standard filtering technologies.

The Ref 20 &15 units use an AC capacitor across the line to supplement peak current demands. They refer to this as Power Factor Correction (this is not the same thing as power factor correction used by your local power utility).

I've often wondered if the iso transformer and/or filtering circuits adversely interact (impedance, reactance) with the primary of the power amps power-supply transformer?

Remember Eli the Ice Man

[prepress]

Originally Posted by tdelahanty

I thought about buying the SPR20i and spoke to Furman extensively. This unit does not employ a true isolation former. It simply is an inductor across the line, AC is applied down the inductor (xx amount of turns) so voltage can be raised or lowered. Unfortunately I can't remember which solid-state device is used to select the appropriate tap. The SPR20i also uses Furman's standard filtering technologies.

The Ref 20 &15 units use an AC capacitor across the line to supplement peak current demands. They refer to this as Power Factor Correction (this is not the same thing as power factor correction used by your local power utility).

I've often wondered if the iso transformer and/or filtering circuits adversely interact (impedance, reactance) with the primary of the power amps power-supply transformer?

Remember Eli the Ice Man

I'm not a tech in these things, but the Elite PFi units have the current reserve in them and those specific outlets are where the power amps should go. Is that what you mean?

[kamiraa]

Originally Posted by tdelahanty

Remember Eli the Ice Man

LOL I loved that mnemonic during my reactance examples

[tdelahanty]

Originally Posted by prepress

I'm not a tech in these things, but the Elite PFi units have the current reserve in them and those specific outlets are where the power amps should go. Is that what you mean?

Yes mostly, the current reserve, power-amp, outlets are referred to as Power Factor Correction. I don't care for Furman's use of this term because its meaning applies to something totally different to your Utility/Power company.

With dedicated lines my experience has not been positive when connecting power-amps. I prefer the sound when connected directly to the Line. However I like the results when using the Furman with front-end stuff.

[mg87]

Originally Posted by redm

Good info. I had actually wondered about that because the 5400 shows input and output voltage, but if it was taking 123v in, it was putting out 123v. I thought the point was a consistent 120v but mine never did that. I guess the P5 has some big cap's to level out the sags?

I personally am glad I spent the money on the P5, regardless of anything else, I would not go back to the 5400. I paid for the high build quality and the piece of mind.

I misunderstood what the input/output registers were doing when I bought the Panamax. I thought it would regulate to 120v. It doesn't, just tell you whats in/out. It went back and I got a Furman. The brief exposure to the Panamax was that it useful but positioned in the market like Monster Power where as Furman has little more high-end bias, especially with the complementary "reference" line.

I have become a strong believer in the value of power conditioners and power cables. High-end electronics deserve and thrive on high quality, unconstrained power to be at their best.

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by mg87

I have become a strong believer in the value of power conditioners and power cables. High-end electronics deserve and thrive on high quality, unconstrained power to be at their best.