Blasphemy to use "Tone Controls" on Mc Pre-Amp?

[TWInsall]

If you all realized which speakers sound engineers use as monitors for mixing POP recordings you would be up in arms. Remember they mix the sound for radio stations and people playing the sound in their cars and on cheap hifi at homes. So the recordings are not the perfect holy grails most audiophiles think they are. The idea of authentic POP recordings went out the windows in the mid to late 60's. The are so many gadgets used to day to tailor the music to the average folks mid fi and lo fi car stereos that the sound that we hear on our systems at home is totally colored. So not having tone controls to help moderate the artificial recordings made today leaves one arm tied behind your back and wishing your ears were protected. Lets face most guys can't hear faithful sound once they are past their 30's. So why should the rest of us suffer when engineers with the same issues compromise the recordings with over emphasized recordings..

[Charles]

TWInsall, respectfully you have rationalized highend audio away. The highend is a journey that most choose not to take. You have to train your ear. It takes a long time. I'm not going to change your mind but there is simply nothing like appreciating and enjoying a well conceived unequalized high end system. I have over the course of time tried very fine equalizers for a few months. I could hear every one of them. I simply would rather hear, note, and appreciate flaws while enjoying the music. Actually, for me it's fun to note the flaws in the system or recording. The music is still there. Over the years I have collected a large amount of very well recorded music. My latest is Sir Simon Rattle's Beethoven Symphony collection on SACD. I probably have 10 Beethoven 9th's. His is the best but all have their high points. With a fine equalizer I could probably make them all sound similar but is this what you really want? In my humble opinion it becomes difficult to evaluate a speaker or source when you employ equalization. If you do, then I believe your journey has stopped and you will find yourself buying that next new beautiful piece of Mac equipment which may be very pleasing to Mac's bottom line.
____________________
Charles
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3)
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCD1100 SACD player, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) and Wilson Watch Controller
Cables main system: Audioquest Wel Signature speaker cables and IC’s; Dragon power cords (8)
Sub-woofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable; Wolf IC and Hurricane power cords (2)
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (2); (3) 20-amp lines

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by TWInsall

If you all realized which speakers sound engineers use as monitors for mixing POP recordings you would be up in arms. Remember they mix the sound for radio stations and people playing the sound in their cars and on cheap hifi at homes. So the recordings are not the perfect holy grails most audiophiles think they are. The idea of authentic POP recordings went out the windows in the mid to late 60's. The are so many gadgets used to day to tailor the music to the average folks mid fi and lo fi car stereos that the sound that we hear on our systems at home is totally colored. So not having tone controls to help moderate the artificial recordings made today leaves one arm tied behind your back and wishing your ears were protected. Lets face most guys can't hear faithful sound once they are past their 30's. So why should the rest of us suffer when engineers with the same issues compromise the recordings with over emphasized recordings..

TWInsall.......You certainly paint with a broad brush.










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[miatadan]

For me, I always thought tone controls were a good thing on McIntosh preamps, even like the loudness switch when available. As long as you enjoy the sound of your system, that is what matters.
Not concerned about what purists may think, or audiophile myths are...just enjoy the music.

Dan

[stereo_5]

Agreed. A little judicious use of the tone controls can make a very poor sounding CD into something more listenable. I don't care what the naysayers think, it's my system and I am the one listening to it.

[piolaxo]

I have always been in the EQ side and for many years I used them without any
remorse. I needed to have tools to play with recordings and make it sound like
I wanted them to be. I had to check the spectrum to visualize their response and
look for places to improve.

For the last ten years or so, I have grown to appreciate albums as they were
recorded and yes, I have looked for remasters when I recognize that a certain recording
and its mastering sounded dated for example. The situation that put me off time
and time again, was the EQ effect at different sound levels. If I needed a change,
there was a change at one volume and another change at higher volumes. I was
never satisfied with one setting with different volume levels and of course,
this was different for every recording and even in the same album, across different songs.
I became frustrated as to having to tweak each song without sitting down and
simply enjoy the album.

I still use the spectrum analyzers to visualize (old bad habit that I cannot break),
where I can see how high the album is recorded, and how are the low and top ends,
but I don't do any EQ. I see the value and proves my gut feeling that a recording
is bass heavy or not, and if the high end has been softened and lacks energy.
In many 80s recordings, cymbals are so dull and lifeless. It's no wonder why the
loudness buttons then worked so well with some of those.

Having said that, another insight that I found more recently is with my office system
in which I have a completely different setup with two different brands of amp and
speakers and placement. So the same dull recording if you want, sounds completely
different than in my main system. That alone tells you that the recording/mastering
may have issues, but there still is value to find out where in the system one can add
an improvement: front-end, cables, amp or speakers before having the need to EQ
the song. To me this was an eye opener. My current goal is to have a system
where I can listen at any volume level and enjoy music without having to correct
the EQ. I think this is what other folks try to say that you don't need anything to
enjoy music to the fullest.

[62caddy]

The more revealing the system, the more apparent any equalization deficiencies will be- by definition.

And when different recordings played on the same system (with the same tone control settings) where some have too much LF, MID and/or HF emphasis while others have just the opposite, it doesn't take much to realize the variability is due to the material and not the system itself. For this, there is only one remedy that will be effective - for those who choose to avail themselves.

Given the sizable investment a quality setup represents, for me it doesn't make much sense not to help it earn its keep, however "fashionable" the alternative.

[1KW]

I like having tone controls, as you have pointed out certain speakers are brighter than others, certain recordings are better or worse than others, certain rooms and listening positions affect the sound. I think its crazy to not have tone controls which is why I have not "traded up" my Mcintosh C2300 because I would lose them.

[stereo_5]

The C2500 and C2600 have tone controls.

[macman007]

Use 'em if you got 'em! No reason not to. Don't believe the hype. It's what sounds best to your ears. Rarely if ever does a recording on it's own sound "right" without some frequency adjustment.

Now typically, I keep the treble control on 3 and the bass on 0 or as much as -5, if the material (typically vinyl) is bass heavy. The +3 of treble is almost universally perfect with every recording I play, whether digital or analog, even vinyl. Bass frequencies however are typically all over the place, and rarely do I ever need to advance the Bass control beyond 0.

My room is dialed in the best it can be, my speakers have fairly flat response within the room, so major shifts in tone controls are almost never needed. To have both Bass and Treble flat on 0 happens very rarely.

Go with what YOU like!