VPI Scout Setup Tools

[ngc4900]

Hi

I have a VPI Scout and a Ortofon Quintet Black on order. I have been reading the VPI Scout PDF manual. It’s not very detailed. I haven’t received the TT yet, but I am beginning to feel I should have NOT slept during those Rocket Science courses in College.

I purchased Michael Fremer’s, seem like a nice guy but not very funny, Practical Guide to Turntable Set-up (2006) and it was ok, but perhaps outdated. I did like his advice of "refraining from being drunk while setting you your TT". He uses a lot of Wally’s Vinyl Corner stuff. He sets up a VPI scoutmaster which looks to be the most challenging TT he attempts to set up…. Lucky me.

My goal in this post is to determine what I need to buy so as not to exceed the cost of the TT/Cartridge, it’s not like I have a 25K TT.

What worries me about setting up a TT is that I can see if you have OCD, pardon me while I pop an Adderall (just joking) or an undiagnosed psychological disorder, (again just joking) you could go down a very scary Rabbit hole and end up either never playing vinyl or chucking the TT down the driveway. I did this once with a Gateway computer. I don’t want to be that person.

Could I please get some opinions on tools I am considering purchasing?

- Clearaudio Weight Watcher Digital Tracking Force Gauge.

- The Q UP Automatic Tonearm Lift (more for convenience than a tool)

- Hi-Fi News Test Record

- Dr. Feickert Analogue's Protractor NG


The following is a list measurements I have no clue what to purchase, if anything.

VTA: Fremer uses a simple small ruler, but notes that a tapered tonearm, which I think the Scout has, makes this imprecise. Wally sells a VTA device.

Azimuth adjustment - Fremer uses a $600 Wally Analog shop machine. And then there is the Fozgometer. There is also Dr. Feickert’s Adjust + which looks interesting but tedious and runs on windows….ugh!


AntiSkating force: Fremer uses a WallySkater which looks like something out of a Da Vinci drawing. But I read something in the VPI Scout manual that intrigued me. Any truth to this?

VPI has conducted careful listening tests and determined that every tonearm we tried
sounded better with its mechanical anti-skating disabled and the tracking force very
slightly increased.

Sorry for the long post.

Appreciate any help/guidance

Best

Joe

[jameslrock]

VPI has a great Youtube video for setting up the Prime. Same advise will help with your Scout.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfJnMtolAWo[/ame]

[ngc4900]

Thanks James
I hope it takes the voodoo out of the process.

Best

Joe

[tima]

Perhaps you didn't see this message in another of your threads.

Wrt azimuth, out of the choices you mention, the Fozgometer may be the most straightforward to use. It's a bit pricey but the least expensive. You can set azimuth by ear, for example here.

Fremer's ruler and Wally's VTA device are used to get the tonearm - or better, the mounting surface of the headshell - parallel to the record, but they don't set VTA. Where you'd like to start from is having the stylus perpendicular to the record surface, then adjust by ear. Theoretically if you had the tonearm parallel to the record the stylus would be perpendicular to the record, but not so likely with more modern carts. Investigate the various posts here and elsewhere about using a USB microscope. Also, there are hundreds of threads and articles about setting VTA available outside this forum - Goggle is your friend. And for what it's worth, you can substitute the acronym SRA for VTA - that's what you're really after: Stylus Rack Angle.

Harry W's views on anti-skating are well known. Try removing the weight and going without it. Otoh, if you hear distortion in just one channel with, for example, dynamic female vocals, then come back and we can talk about it. I use an EmmyLou Harris solo track on Dolly Parton's Trio album to check anti-skate.

Hi-Fi News test record is fine. I use this one.

[John49]

Clearaudio Weight Watcher is good. Recommended.

[Formerly YB-2]

Also, VPI has a forum where Harry, Matt and others answer all your questions.
vpiindustries.com/forum • Index page
It really isn't that complicated. Just use reasonable care and make small adjustments and you'll get there.

[racer59]

Originally Posted by tima

Otoh, if you hear distortion in just one channel with, for example, dynamic female vocals, then come back and we can talk about it. I use an EmmyLou Harris solo track on Dolly Parton's Trio album to check anti-skate.

Hi-Fi News test record is fine. I use this one.

I always assumed that distortion like that was caused by the pressing. So now I'm really confused. I've been getting distortion on women's vocals, for example Nico Deserthsore I get really bad distortion on Afraid. Get some distortion on some Amy Winehouse records, also some male vocals.

If it's not the record, what causes this?

Ive owned my Scout for several years but never tried to make any adjustments until recently when I took it to a local VPI dealer who made some adjustments for me since I purchased a few items. Now I'm thinking about taking it back with these records so they can hear what I'm talking about.

[tima]

Originally Posted by racer59

I always assumed that distortion like that was caused by the pressing. So now I'm really confused. I've been getting distortion on women's vocals, for example Nico Deserthsore I get really bad distortion on Afraid. Get some distortion on some Amy Winehouse records, also some male vocals.

If it's not the record, what causes this?

Ive owned my Scout for several years but never tried to make any adjustments until recently when I took it to a local VPI dealer who made some adjustments for me since I purchased a few items. Now I'm thinking about taking it back with these records so they can hear what I'm talking about.

Strong, dynamic vocals from female voices are one of the challenges for any analog setup and can be an indicator of incorrect setup if you hear them distorted in one channel, and even more so if that comes in one channel toward the end of an LP side. This may be a function of the anti-skate setting on your tonearm. (OR, like you suggest it could be a lousy pressing, or a pressing damaged by an incorrect anti-skate setting.)

Ideally the stylus should ride equally against both sides of the groove for most records. When it doesn't, when it s pulled toward the spindle and thus toward one side of the groove then you can get distortion. Anti-skate functions to compensate for this. Distortion in the right channel usually means too little anti-skate and left channel distortion means too much anti-skate.

Try the VPI approach and set A-S to zero, or remove the little weight and see where things stand. The whole A-S topic is somewhat controversial based on theory, so actual experiments are helpful.

One quick way to evaluate your anti-skate is visually. Watch the cantilever from the front of the cartridge when the stylus is lowered into the groove about an inch into a spinning record. If the cantilever deflects to the right, increase the anti-skate and likewise if it deflects to the left, then reduce anti-skate. It's pretty easy to see. Aim for having the stylus settle into the groove with the cantilever stable. This makes for a good starting point for adjustment based on listening.

I found setting anti-skate is not one record and done. Try several records over several days to confirm your adjustment has not over compensated for a particular problem record. You can reduce distortion on a damaged record but this may not be optimal for most records.

The distortion you hear could also be mistracking that can be fixed by altering VTF, usually by a slight tracking force increase (1/10 gram).

[audio bill]

Originally Posted by tima

Distortion in the left channel usually means too little anti-skate and right channel distortion means too much anti-skate.

With all due respect I believe you have that reversed. The inner-side of the groove contains the left channel signal, so if you have distortion from mistracking in that channel it is likely from too much ant-skate bias. In this case too much a/s force is pulling the stylus away from that channel's side of the groove resulting in inadequate force and mistracking. Likewise distortion in the right channel is caused by too little a/s force, since the skating force is pulling the stylus away from the outer side of the groove.

[racer59]

Originally Posted by tima

Strong, dynamic vocals from female voices are one of the challenges for any analog setup and can be an indicator of incorrect setup if you hear them distorted in one channel, and even more so if that comes in one channel toward the end of an LP side. This may be a function of the anti-skate setting on your tonearm. (OR, like you suggest it could be a lousy pressing, or a pressing damaged by an incorrect anti-skate setting.)

Ideally the stylus should ride equally against both sides of the groove for most records. When it doesn't, when it s pulled toward the spindle and thus toward one side of the groove then you can get distortion. Anti-skate functions to compensate for this. Distortion in the right channel usually means too little anti-skate and left channel distortion means too much anti-skate.

Try the VPI approach and set A-S to zero, or remove the little weight and see where things stand. The whole A-S topic is somewhat controversial based on theory, so actual experiments are helpful.

One quick way to evaluate your anti-skate is visually. Watch the cantilever from the front of the cartridge when the stylus is lowered into the groove about an inch into a spinning record. If the cantilever deflects to the right, increase the anti-skate and likewise if it deflects to the left, then reduce anti-skate. It's pretty easy to see. Aim for having the stylus settle into the groove with the cantilever stable. This makes for a good starting point for adjustment based on listening.

I found setting anti-skate is not one record and done. Try several records over several days to confirm your adjustment has not over compensated for a particular problem record. You can reduce distortion on a damaged record but this may not be optimal for most records.

The distortion you hear could also be mistracking that can be fixed by altering VTF, usually by a slight tracking force increase (1/10 gram).

Thanks for the response. I haven't used the anti skate on my Scout. My understanding is that VPI recommends not using it.

I'm inclined to think something needs adjustment since I have two completely different pressings of that specific album (the 4MWB and orig US RCA) and both exhibit the same distortion in the same place. I'll try and play with the VTF this weekend. If I can figure out how to do it.