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Old 03-15-2015, 12:59 PM
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Bikeman71 Bikeman71 is offline
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Default Amp/Pre-Amp - BIG soundstage

I am beginning the journey towards buying a new amp/pre-amp or integrated for my system and would like to hear from y'all on brands/models that have been identified to throw a HUGE soundstage.

My system can be seen in my signature and two pieces that will likely be in the system for a long time include my PMC IB2i and Oppo 105D Modwright (along with the solid silver cables from Wireworld.)

I was reading a forum not too long ago where a poster described VAC pre-amps as presenting a soundstage that was too big-he said it was not natural...I don't see how that's possible...at least I've never experienced it.

What are your thoughts on this subject? I love the affect that many people describe as, "I close my eyes and the band is right there in the room w me." In my experience, the deeper, wider, and taller the soundstage, the better!
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Brent
Equipment: McIntosh MC302, McIntosh MX121, Franco Serblin Accordo, Oppo 105 Darbee Modwright, Running Springs Haley
Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse Interconnects, Wireworld Silver Power Cords
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Old 03-15-2015, 01:20 PM
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Brent, with the same speakers and amp/preamp my sound stage got noticeably bigger and more "present" each time when I (1) added subs and an active cross-over, (2) upgraded my CDP/DAC, and (3) added acoustic treatment and vibration isolation. My speakers are so "invisible" to me that I don't have to close my eyes. It may be more a question of speaker position/listening position than anything else to make yours disappear. I do think that a quality amp is "necessary, but not sufficient" to great sound. I have not heard the gear you are using, but the specs read strong.
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Old 03-15-2015, 01:29 PM
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Yamaki Yamaki is offline
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Brent...my soundstage improved with upgrades to speakers, amps and cabling.

Once I had the speakers positioned optimally, then I began to adjust levels and tweak a bit on the equalization.

However, it's not the brand that brings the soundstage to you in all its glory, it is what you do with the gear, the room and your sources.

Speaking of sources, what are yours? What do you listen to the most?

I think you have a good start on cabling and you've picked an excellent brand.

But what else is in the system?

Have you upgraded your power into the system or placed any power conditioning gear?

What about your room? Any acoustic treatments yet?

Lots of things to touch here that can make a difference that's for sure.

Tell us more about your current system, sources, power and room acoustics.
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Old 03-15-2015, 01:29 PM
harri009 harri009 is offline
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The best amps I have owned were the Pass Lab XA100.5's and the Rogue M180's. Both of these do a great job with the sound stage and offer more bloom. The pass X series amps are also great and hold slightly tighter images but the tube bloom is lost.

Bikeman, I mean absolutely no offense by this but have your tried a different source other than the oppo? I tried an Oppo 95 and A/B'd it against an emotiva ERC-1 and an Ayre C5xeMp. I found the oppo to smash the sound stage I was accustomed into a 2 dimensional realm, essentially killing the depth. Both the emotiva and the Ayre sounded much better IMHO. The associated equipment was an Ayre K5xeMP pre, Pass Labs X350 amp, and Magnepan 3.7's. I know my experience doesn't seem to be the norm but If your wanting more depth and more natural sound I would not suggest the oppo and perhaps the Sabre Dacs all together. For the record I did enjoy the oppo in my theater room though.
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Old 03-15-2015, 02:05 PM
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I think I've got a pretty good handle on acoustics in the room. I've made tremendous strides on sound with GIK acoustic panels on the side/rear and Vicoustic panels up front.

Power conditioning is handled well with a Running Springs Haley and Wireworld Platinum power cables.

The Oppo Modwright could become a subject on its own, but I've never heard anything better. To my ears, not only is the soundstage bigger than any source I've owned, but it sounds more like vinyl than anything I've ever heard too....it's just so damn liquid. But, I've got $500 in tubes wrapped up in it too. Previous digital sources include mcintosh, Teac, Oppo 95, etc.

I guess what I'm looking for is advice that helps me decide....all other things aside, what amp/pre-amp have you found to make significant improvements to your sound stage when nothing else was changed? What brands/models have been given universal acclaim for this specific quality?
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Brent
Equipment: McIntosh MC302, McIntosh MX121, Franco Serblin Accordo, Oppo 105 Darbee Modwright, Running Springs Haley
Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse Interconnects, Wireworld Silver Power Cords
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Old 03-15-2015, 02:11 PM
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Brent, going back further in my personal timeline, when I went from my Emotiva gear to Balanced Audio Technology there was a drastic improvement in sound stage. However, your present rig is much better than my Emotiva gear was. Obviously, I am highly biased in favor of BAT since I am using it presently, but I have never wanted (or needed) to upgrade it either, even after hearing lots of other gear.
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Old 03-15-2015, 02:14 PM
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Bikeman71 Bikeman71 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessman View Post
Brent, with the same speakers and amp/preamp my sound stage got noticeably bigger and more "present" each time when I (1) added subs and an active cross-over, (2) upgraded my CDP/DAC, and (3) added acoustic treatment and vibration isolation. My speakers are so "invisible" to me that I don't have to close my eyes. It may be more a question of speaker position/listening position than anything else to make yours disappear. I do think that a quality amp is "necessary, but not sufficient" to great sound. I have not heard the gear you are using, but the specs read strong.
And, I must agree about the advice regarding isolation...Stiilpoint ultra SS under my source and amplifiers made a HUGE difference...li couldn't believe what I was hearing. I placed them under my PMCs and didn't like the result...the sound bordered on harsh with that application.
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Brent
Equipment: McIntosh MC302, McIntosh MX121, Franco Serblin Accordo, Oppo 105 Darbee Modwright, Running Springs Haley
Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse Interconnects, Wireworld Silver Power Cords
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Old 03-15-2015, 02:18 PM
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Brent, you sure you got a problem? Sounds like you have been pretty deep into this.
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Old 03-15-2015, 02:19 PM
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Brent...thanks for that info!

I can relate to where you are a bit better now.

Back in December I upgraded my Emotiva main amps to a pair of MC501's + I added a McIntosh D100 as a stand alone DAC.

The differences were HUGE!

Now that I have implemented a JRiver/JRemote digital solution to connect the server to the D100 directly via USB, it's time to upgrade another cable.

So, from my limited experience and considering where I came from amp wise & dac wise, I have a one word answer to your question....

McIntosh
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  #10  
Old 03-15-2015, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chessman View Post
Brent, you sure you got a problem? Sounds like you have been pretty deep into this.
Ha! I definitely don't have any problems. In fact, I'm listening to Steely Dan "Aja" right now and when "Josie" just played it sounded so good I had to bust out my air guitar and stand up and dance with a big goofy grin. But, can it get better? I know the answer is "yes!"

I've gone down the subwoofer route and couldn't get them to hook up correctly. I just read your thread on your experience with the Bryston crossover...I love that whole thread! But, the PMC transmission allows for full response to the mid 20's and decent response into the low 20's.

My last set up included mcintosh 501s and a 2300 (with the PMCs and oppo modwright.). It was very good! But this BMC c1 integrated is also very good...I've just got the itch to try something new.
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Brent
Equipment: McIntosh MC302, McIntosh MX121, Franco Serblin Accordo, Oppo 105 Darbee Modwright, Running Springs Haley
Cables: Wireworld Gold Eclipse speaker, Wireworld Gold Eclipse Interconnects, Wireworld Silver Power Cords
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