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Mc2301 turning off
Hey guys,
I'm having an issue with one of my c3201's. Here's what happens - i turn on my system, start playing music and after a minute i here a crunchy sound' the unit turns off with a blinking red light. It's always the same unit, and only happens when i have just turn it on first time that day. When i turn the unit off and on again it's fine. The tubes are all new from may this year - could this be a bad tube that acts up when it's cold? Any help is appreciated, Luk |
#2
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Yes, it can easily be a bad tube. I would not turn it back on until all tubes have been checked. Sentry Monitor is turning your Amp off for a reason.
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Ivan FLORIDA MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES CAPE COD MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES Last edited by Masterlu; 08-03-2017 at 06:27 AM. |
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Do you have access to a tube tester? If not, is there a friend or possibly an audio store you frequent or your dealer who has one? If not, are you in the states? I could possibly send you 8 KT88's and 2 12AT7's to get you back in the game -- you send me your 10 and I'd test 'em for you. Anyway, could work out the details.
Let me know -- general comment here in this thread & PM me details. Best Sir, Bob
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Amps:VAC 450iQ Monos in Silver Flake on HRS M3X2-1921's, HRS G7 Footers/G-Links & Sound Anchor Conecoasters. Preamp:VAC Statement (on order) (Silver Flake) Digital Source: dCS Rossini CD/SACD Transport, Vivaldi APEX DAC, Upsampler Plus & matching Clock (Silver) Analogue Preamp:VAC Renaissance SE Phono stage in Silver Flake with XLR Output Option & with Nordost Valhalla XLR's. Analogue Sources:SME 20/2 w/SME V arm & Nordost Odin 2 Tone Arm Cable, Palo Santos Presentation Cartridge & Akai GX-400D Reel-to-Reel w/relapped heads by JRF Magnetic Sciences. Akai RC-17 cabled remote (original owner since 1974). Vibration Control:TT on HRS M3X2-1921 shelf. Speakers:Wilson Audio Alexia V (on order in Ferrari Argento Silver/Parchment grills sitting on Acoustic Diode Kit). Power Cables:4 Nordost Odin Supreme Reference on amps, preamp & DAC. Ansuz Acoustics C2 on Transport & Clock. Power Distribution:Ansuz Mainz D3 Distributor & Ansuz Mainz C2 1M Power Cable Power Outlets:Furutech GTX-D NCF (R) duplex outlet, GTX Wall Plate & Duplex Cover (x2) on dedicated, same panel phase, 20A breakers. Speaker Cables:2M Nordost Odin 2 Supreme Reference on Nordost Sort Lifts. Signal Cables:Nordost Odin XLR's on dCS DAC & Amps. Digital Cables: Nordost Odin 2's, 110-ohm AES/EBU on dCS Transport to DAC. Clock Cables:5 each 75 ohm 1.25M Nordost Valhalla BNC/BNC Digital Ethernet Cable: WireWorld Platinum 1M Starlight® 8 Twinax Headphones:Vintage Koss Pro IV AA. RCM: Audio Desk PRO Tube Test Gear:Mint late '60's/calibrated Heathkit TT-1A, MaxiMatcher Power Amp & Preamp & Space Tech Labs ATT-3.02 tube test sets. |
#4
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Luk,
Many tube issues happen on warm up. Elements inside the tube expand and move as the heater warms the inside of the tube. Probably one of the grids is hitting the plate or cathode, causing a short. Sentry monitor is saving your amplifier. Re-tube the offending amp and then get the tubes you pull tested. This problem may not show up using a tube tester because all the voltages and how the tube is operated are different than in your amplifier. But it's worth a try. Tubes often fail when they have low hours, so called infant mortality. If you get past the first 100 hours or so, you'll be good a long time. Tom
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Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v |
#5
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Okay -- you can try this to help isolate the KT88 and 12AT7's. I'm somewhat leaning on making a bet it's the 12volt 12AT7's - they work pretty hard in the MC2301's and for your amp to shut down so quickly, my bet is there -- may not be correct as too many variables, but I'm here, you're there & so it's a guessing game from my end.
First off -- do you have any spare KT88's or 12AT7's?? If not, you should make that a priority acquisition -- like yesterday. Here we go (from our AA member W9TR -- TOM when he was much younger): "First, swap all the tubes into your good amp. If it shuts down, you've got a tube problem. If not, stop and get help from McIntosh service. Let's say you swap the tubes and the problem follows the tubes. So you know it's a tube. First swap out the 12AT7's to see if it is one of them. Replace both 12AT7's tubes with a matched pair if one is bad. These little guys work hard. If the amp still shuts down, isolate the bad KT88. Here's how. The 8 power tube slots are labeled V1-/V1+, V2-/V2+, V4-/V4+ and V5-/V5+ with the + tubes on the left bank, and the (-) tubes in the right bank. The tubes are grouped into two quads, one in the front of the amp, one in the rear. The front four tubes (V5+, V4+, V1- V2-) are one quad, the rear four tubes (V1+, V2+, V5-, V4-) a second quad. Each quad can be removed and the amp powered up and operated. This allows you to isolate down to a quad with out swapping in different tubes. So pull either the front or read quad, the one you most suspect, power up the amp, and if itstays powered up, you've isolated the bad quad. If the amp still shuts down, the bad quad is in the amp. The next step further isolates the bad tube. Power down the amp and put all the tubes back in. Tubes V1&V2 are in parallel, and tubes V4&V5 are in parallel. This means that you can pull one of each of the parallel tubes and the amp will still run. On the bad quad, pull V1 and V4, leaving V2 and V5 in the amp. Power up the amp. If the amp shuts down, you know either V2 or V5 is bad. If the amp keeps running, it is V1 or V4 that are bad. Now you've isolated it to two tubes. You'll need a single new tube to find the bad tube by swapping the good tube for one of the known bad pair. Swap it and if the amp stays running, you are done. Congrats. If the amp shuts down, the remaining bad tube is in the amp. Swap it out and the amp will run. Trust me, it's easier to do than write about, and with all the protection circuitry in the MC2301's, you're not likely to cause collateral damage. You turn on the amp a max of four times. McIntosh amps, especially the 2301, are not picky about tube matching, so no worries there." Best Sir, Bob
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Amps:VAC 450iQ Monos in Silver Flake on HRS M3X2-1921's, HRS G7 Footers/G-Links & Sound Anchor Conecoasters. Preamp:VAC Statement (on order) (Silver Flake) Digital Source: dCS Rossini CD/SACD Transport, Vivaldi APEX DAC, Upsampler Plus & matching Clock (Silver) Analogue Preamp:VAC Renaissance SE Phono stage in Silver Flake with XLR Output Option & with Nordost Valhalla XLR's. Analogue Sources:SME 20/2 w/SME V arm & Nordost Odin 2 Tone Arm Cable, Palo Santos Presentation Cartridge & Akai GX-400D Reel-to-Reel w/relapped heads by JRF Magnetic Sciences. Akai RC-17 cabled remote (original owner since 1974). Vibration Control:TT on HRS M3X2-1921 shelf. Speakers:Wilson Audio Alexia V (on order in Ferrari Argento Silver/Parchment grills sitting on Acoustic Diode Kit). Power Cables:4 Nordost Odin Supreme Reference on amps, preamp & DAC. Ansuz Acoustics C2 on Transport & Clock. Power Distribution:Ansuz Mainz D3 Distributor & Ansuz Mainz C2 1M Power Cable Power Outlets:Furutech GTX-D NCF (R) duplex outlet, GTX Wall Plate & Duplex Cover (x2) on dedicated, same panel phase, 20A breakers. Speaker Cables:2M Nordost Odin 2 Supreme Reference on Nordost Sort Lifts. Signal Cables:Nordost Odin XLR's on dCS DAC & Amps. Digital Cables: Nordost Odin 2's, 110-ohm AES/EBU on dCS Transport to DAC. Clock Cables:5 each 75 ohm 1.25M Nordost Valhalla BNC/BNC Digital Ethernet Cable: WireWorld Platinum 1M Starlight® 8 Twinax Headphones:Vintage Koss Pro IV AA. RCM: Audio Desk PRO Tube Test Gear:Mint late '60's/calibrated Heathkit TT-1A, MaxiMatcher Power Amp & Preamp & Space Tech Labs ATT-3.02 tube test sets. Last edited by vintage_tube; 08-03-2017 at 08:35 AM. |
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Mc2301 turning off
Bob,
While I follow your experimental design to isolate the offender(s), isn't that putting a lot of faith in the Sentry Monitor to be your 'yes/no' trigger? If it hiccups, you could toast a $9,000 amplifier... I would simply unplug it, order a full set of new tubes and have the others tested. Then cross your fingers, say a pray to the McGods and turn it on. Honestly, every time I turn my system on I say a little prayer the tubes are working.
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Main Equipment: Kharma Elegance dB11-S, JL Audio F113v2 X 2, Block Audio Line & Mono SE Amplification, Bricasti M21 DAC, Antipodes Kala K-50 Server, Clearaudio Performance SE. Satisfy tonearm & Maestro Wood MM cartridge. Power: Shunyata Everest 8000, Sigma XC v2, Sigma NR v2, Block Audio PCs, Defender, ADDPowr Wizard Grounding: Shunyata Altaira CGS - 4 X Alpha CGS cables, Network : Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon) Modified Buffalo GS2016 Switches, Keces P3 LPSU, Cables: Wireworld Platinum 8 USB, Wireworld Platinum 8 Speaker cables, 6M & 1M Tubulus Concentus ICs, Other:Two PSI Audio AVAA C20, Multiple GIK products, Stillpoint Apertures, Stillpoint Minis and Ultra SS, Three 20 Amp lines, Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona Rack Last edited by crwilli; 08-03-2017 at 09:29 AM. |
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Quote:
My PC HD crashed and so lost his electronic email but have it printed out. Easier to copy & paste than retype. There's always a gamble -- but from those conversations, Sentry Monitoring is pretty slick. Not to make someone feel bad when they see $9K for a new MC2301 -- the current price is closer to $12K each. Best Sir, Bob
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Amps:VAC 450iQ Monos in Silver Flake on HRS M3X2-1921's, HRS G7 Footers/G-Links & Sound Anchor Conecoasters. Preamp:VAC Statement (on order) (Silver Flake) Digital Source: dCS Rossini CD/SACD Transport, Vivaldi APEX DAC, Upsampler Plus & matching Clock (Silver) Analogue Preamp:VAC Renaissance SE Phono stage in Silver Flake with XLR Output Option & with Nordost Valhalla XLR's. Analogue Sources:SME 20/2 w/SME V arm & Nordost Odin 2 Tone Arm Cable, Palo Santos Presentation Cartridge & Akai GX-400D Reel-to-Reel w/relapped heads by JRF Magnetic Sciences. Akai RC-17 cabled remote (original owner since 1974). Vibration Control:TT on HRS M3X2-1921 shelf. Speakers:Wilson Audio Alexia V (on order in Ferrari Argento Silver/Parchment grills sitting on Acoustic Diode Kit). Power Cables:4 Nordost Odin Supreme Reference on amps, preamp & DAC. Ansuz Acoustics C2 on Transport & Clock. Power Distribution:Ansuz Mainz D3 Distributor & Ansuz Mainz C2 1M Power Cable Power Outlets:Furutech GTX-D NCF (R) duplex outlet, GTX Wall Plate & Duplex Cover (x2) on dedicated, same panel phase, 20A breakers. Speaker Cables:2M Nordost Odin 2 Supreme Reference on Nordost Sort Lifts. Signal Cables:Nordost Odin XLR's on dCS DAC & Amps. Digital Cables: Nordost Odin 2's, 110-ohm AES/EBU on dCS Transport to DAC. Clock Cables:5 each 75 ohm 1.25M Nordost Valhalla BNC/BNC Digital Ethernet Cable: WireWorld Platinum 1M Starlight® 8 Twinax Headphones:Vintage Koss Pro IV AA. RCM: Audio Desk PRO Tube Test Gear:Mint late '60's/calibrated Heathkit TT-1A, MaxiMatcher Power Amp & Preamp & Space Tech Labs ATT-3.02 tube test sets. |
#8
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Quote:
Felt much better afterwards. I've never worried about smoking the MC2301's at startup. Never. When I'm pushing 'em really loud -- like over 65 on my C1100 (which is LOUD), it does cross my mind from time to time that a tube will give out or something like that & an amp will go into shutdown mode. Only play that loud when someone comes over for the 1st time and -- heck, you have to crank it at least for one Led Zeppelin song. There's no fun at 15. May as well throw a CD in & turn up the Bose Wave. Best Sir, Bob
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Amps:VAC 450iQ Monos in Silver Flake on HRS M3X2-1921's, HRS G7 Footers/G-Links & Sound Anchor Conecoasters. Preamp:VAC Statement (on order) (Silver Flake) Digital Source: dCS Rossini CD/SACD Transport, Vivaldi APEX DAC, Upsampler Plus & matching Clock (Silver) Analogue Preamp:VAC Renaissance SE Phono stage in Silver Flake with XLR Output Option & with Nordost Valhalla XLR's. Analogue Sources:SME 20/2 w/SME V arm & Nordost Odin 2 Tone Arm Cable, Palo Santos Presentation Cartridge & Akai GX-400D Reel-to-Reel w/relapped heads by JRF Magnetic Sciences. Akai RC-17 cabled remote (original owner since 1974). Vibration Control:TT on HRS M3X2-1921 shelf. Speakers:Wilson Audio Alexia V (on order in Ferrari Argento Silver/Parchment grills sitting on Acoustic Diode Kit). Power Cables:4 Nordost Odin Supreme Reference on amps, preamp & DAC. Ansuz Acoustics C2 on Transport & Clock. Power Distribution:Ansuz Mainz D3 Distributor & Ansuz Mainz C2 1M Power Cable Power Outlets:Furutech GTX-D NCF (R) duplex outlet, GTX Wall Plate & Duplex Cover (x2) on dedicated, same panel phase, 20A breakers. Speaker Cables:2M Nordost Odin 2 Supreme Reference on Nordost Sort Lifts. Signal Cables:Nordost Odin XLR's on dCS DAC & Amps. Digital Cables: Nordost Odin 2's, 110-ohm AES/EBU on dCS Transport to DAC. Clock Cables:5 each 75 ohm 1.25M Nordost Valhalla BNC/BNC Digital Ethernet Cable: WireWorld Platinum 1M Starlight® 8 Twinax Headphones:Vintage Koss Pro IV AA. RCM: Audio Desk PRO Tube Test Gear:Mint late '60's/calibrated Heathkit TT-1A, MaxiMatcher Power Amp & Preamp & Space Tech Labs ATT-3.02 tube test sets. Last edited by vintage_tube; 08-03-2017 at 09:56 AM. |
#9
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I like the idea of trying all the tubes from know OK amp to test with.
sounds like a tube is goofy??? |
#10
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"I say a little prayer to Joe Pesci that the tubes are working."....
fixed that for ya....
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David St. Hubbins "I believe virtually everything I read" |
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