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  #1  
Old 11-12-2016, 11:11 AM
jakegt3 jakegt3 is offline
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Default Reference 5SE vs. LS27

Has anyone upgraded from the LS27 to the Reference 5SE, or compared the two? I'm considering this upgrade and want to hear what differences people find between them.
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Old 11-12-2016, 12:35 PM
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The Lost Bears The Lost Bears is offline
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I have had a few Audio Research preamps over the years. I had an LS25 mk2 for a number of years. My dealer offered me a sweet deal on his demo LS27. I thought it would be a nice little upgrade but at best it was a sideways move. In my all Audio Research system, the LS27 just sounded kind of thin and lifeless. It did some things better but there was no magic. IMHO and system, the Ref 3 is also a better preamp.


A little while later I was offered a deal on a demo Ref 5se. The Ref 5se is in a whole different league. It is the finest preamp I have ever had in my system. I have not taken the Ref 6 home for a serious listen nor do I intend to. The Ref 5se has a bigger deeper more 3 dimensional sound stage. The instruments are more defined and solid, more organic sounding. It is just an amazing preamp in every way.

Now there are a few things you can do to tweak it and make it sound even better. Use a Sain or Shunyata power cord with it, not Venom. Replace the fuses with Synergistic Research Black fuses. Replace the ARC black tube rings with Herbie's Ultrasonic RX-9 tube rings. I have not played a lot with footers because I don't have enough space between my shelves. The Ref 5se needs a couple inches on top for airflow. I run mine without the top which also helps air flow.
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Old 11-12-2016, 01:35 PM
Mikado463 Mikado463 is offline
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interesting comments from 'Lost Bears' ......... I have the LS-27 in my system I find none of the thin and lifeless signatures that he mentions. IMO and as most of us know on here, synergy throughout ones system (including the room) is the key.

I have listened through the 5se in the past but never A/B'd it up against the LS27.

FWIW, my LS27 feeds a pair of Rogue M-180's or my Plinius SA102 (depending on time of the year) which drive a pair of Revel Studio 2's. Analog front end is Fosgate signature, VPI Aries III, benz micro Glider. Digital is a Cary 306

Last edited by Mikado463; 11-12-2016 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:04 PM
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I have run into Audio Research components sounding a little thin in the past. They don't have that classic tube sound and thread kind of a fine line between solid state. I think it may really depends on what the LS27 is paired with. The Rogue has more of a tube sound if I remember, so it might be a really nice match with that type of amp. With my Ref 110 though it sounded a bit thin. There is normally synergy in an all ARC system from around the same period. But forget the thin sound for a moment. The Ref 5se does everything that the LS27 does really well even better. It is just in a different league. I also think that having tubes in the power supply can really make a difference. The Ref 5se is a real gem for what it is selling for used.

I did not have my Sonus Faber speakers at that time. I had electrostats which were a little less forgiving. I also have a Fosgate signature and it is a really sweet phono stage.
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Old 11-12-2016, 04:11 PM
schneice schneice is offline
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It had been a few years, but I A/B the 2 Pre's at my dealer. The fed the Ref150 and Wilson Sasha 1s. I felt the 5se was a pretty considerable step up. But it's been too long for me the comment on the specifics that drove my assessment. But I did end up voting with my pocketbook.
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Old 11-12-2016, 05:24 PM
Mikado463 Mikado463 is offline
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interesting Lost Bears for I just recently left the di-pole world (Maggies and Logans for the past 30 plus years) and had no issues with my M/L Spires. I will say this after using nothing but tube preamps for over thirty years, ARC across the board have always been the most neutral whereas my CJ and Cary pieces had more of the euphoric 'tube warmth'. Perhaps the 5se leans a little in that direction.
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Old 11-12-2016, 06:42 PM
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The Lost Bears The Lost Bears is offline
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That is interesting. Since the late 1980's I have also had primarily electrostats. I started with an original pair of Acoustats I bought used for $200. They were around 10 years old and never did work all that well. I have also owned Magnepan MMG, Soundlab Dynastats, Apogee Slat 6s and lastly Martin Logan SL3s. I really took a much more expensive speaker to lure me away from planar type of speakers.

What I meant about less forgiving was electrostats can be very revealing. You really get out of them what you feed in. My Sonus Faber are a bit warmer and more forgiving.

That is very true about both the modern ARC amps and preamps. I fell in love the first time I heard an Audio Research Classic 60. It was the best amplifier I had ever hear. That was the late 1980's. I have owned Audio Research ever since. But some ARC pieces have been better than others. And I have not always felt everything was an worthwhile upgrade. But they have also hit some grand slams and the Ref 5se is definitely that.


Curiously I am also a big train fan. I collect all sorts 0f pre world war II toys and especially trains.


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Old 11-12-2016, 06:45 PM
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I tried posting a picture I uploaded to an album. But I seem to have done something wrong. I think you can still browse my album if you like.
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Old 11-13-2016, 06:38 AM
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That's interesting question. I have REF3 and couldn't be more happy with it. Coming from LS15 the improvement is nothing but massive.
LS27 is according to ARC a better pre than REF3 and REF5(SE) is improved REF3 so which is better LS27 or REF5(SE).. Best option is to get one (normally dealers should have a demo unit available) and compare them in your own system.
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Old 11-13-2016, 05:46 PM
sander sander is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPS View Post
LS27 is according to ARC a better pre than REF3 and REF5(SE) is improved REF3 so which is better LS27 or REF5(SE)..
I also own A REF3 and I compared it with a LS27.

Let me be clear; the LS27 is a great pre-amp and comes close to the REF3 but it is in no way better than the REF3.

Maybe it's a little bit faster, but it does not have the air, the wide soundstage and beautiful timbre of the REF3.

So you should not worry about the step from LS27 to a REF5(SE); it will be an even bigger one, compared with the REF3.

Sander.
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