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  #21  
Old 08-24-2014, 11:00 PM
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Interestingly enough, I think I prefer the sound of the EL34s rather than the KT-120s. The low end is a little embellished and overcooked with the KT-120s in place.
There is a real sense of purity with the EL34s. I'm anxious for the Nordost Heindall 2's to arrive (should be here on Tuesday). Maybe my opinion will change with the cabling change. I have around 50 hours on the amplifier and speakers at this point, so I think I have a ways to go with the speakers, though the amp should be fairly well broken in. I have gone back and forth with the 4 and 8 ohm taps. Overall I think the 4 ohm tap is appropriate for most material, though some mellower jazz and classical sound a little more spacious when using the 8 ohm tap. I think the EVOs benefit from the extra current bump provided by the 4 ohm tap.


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  #22  
Old 08-24-2014, 11:13 PM
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Jason.......At 50 hours the PrimaLuna Dialogue HP break-in is not complete. The PrimaLuna Prologue Premium integrated amplifier I reviewed had 50 hours on it when I received it. During the next 150 hours of break-in I put it through I heard it smooth out a midrange peak that initially irritated my ears but disappeared at about the 150 hour mark. Those big Nichicon capacitors take quite a bit of time to settle into a permanent state. Be patient and you will be rewarded. With only 50 hours of use it is too early to make assumptions about the Dialogue HP's ultimate voice. At 200 hours you will have a completely different opinion and improved performance.
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  #23  
Old 08-24-2014, 11:26 PM
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Jason...I also think the caps in the SF GEs crossover as well as the drivers will also take some time to settle in. Also, as it relates to low frequencies with the KT-120s being "overcooked" can you explain what you mean and how the low frequency sonics are different with the EL34s in place? Just trying to understand what you mean by overcooked as it may also be a situation where speaker placement or listener chair placement changes can change the perceived boominess of a speaker in a room (an interesting experiment is to just play a low frequency tone burst or warble and put it on repeat and just move your chair around back and forth and left and right and see if it makes a change in how you hear the low frequencies and how tight, articulated and punchy they are in some positions vs. perhaps being too much, boomy or "overcooked" in other positions. There are bass nodes in some areas in the room where the standing waves build up and result in excessive bass and other areas where there are bass suckouts. The trick is finding where you get the best balance. I know your room is not big so moving things around may be limited by room dimensions but first thing I would do is plop your listening chair where it has been and then one speaker at a time move them back towards the rear wall and then back away from the wall until you find where the bass sounds most natural, articulated and punchy. Once you figure out the optimum position from a bass perspective one speaker at a time, I would then play with how wide apart they should be to optimize stage width while maintaining the most focused and solid center image. Once that has been determined, I would play with toe-in to optimize high-frequency smoothness and play with the rake angle on the speaker stands so that the tweeters are shooting at your ear level. If things are locked in at that point but you are still experiencing a little too boomy bass then at that point I would play with moving your listening chair back and forth little by little until you get the best balance and then you can re-tweak at that point in things like toe-in, rake angle, etc...Hope that's helpful.

Last edited by cmalak; 08-24-2014 at 11:37 PM.
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  #24  
Old 08-24-2014, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdandy View Post
Jason.......At 50 hours the PrimaLuna Dialogue HP break-in is not complete. The PrimaLuna Prologue Premium integrated amplifier I reviewed had 50 hours on it when I received it. During the next 150 hours of break-in I put it through I heard it smooth out a midrange peak that initially irritated my ears but disappeared at about the 150 hour mark. Those big Nichicon capacitors take quite a bit of time to settle into a permanent state. Be patient and you will be rewarded. With only 50 hours of use it is too early to make assumptions about the Dialogue HP's ultimate voice. At 200 hours you will have a completely different opinion and improved performance.
Thank you Dan!
This is very helpful to know.
I will give it quite a bit more time before I make any more judgements. :-)
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  #25  
Old 08-24-2014, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmalak View Post
Jason...I also think the caps in the SF GEs crossover as well as the drivers will also take some time to settle in. Also, as it relates to low frequencies with the KT-120s being "overcooked" can you explain what you mean and how the low frequency sonics are different with the EL34s in place? Just trying to understand what you mean by overcooked as it may also be a situation where speaker placement or listener chair placement changes can change the perceived boominess of a speaker in a room (an interesting experiment is to just play a low frequency tone burst or warble and put it on repeat and just move your chair around back and forth and left and right and see if it makes a change in how you hear the low frequencies and how tight, articulated and punchy they are in some positions vs. perhaps being too much, boomy or "overcooked" in other positions. There are bass nodes in some areas in the room where the standing waves build up and result in excessive bass and other areas where there are bass suckouts. The trick is finding where you get the best balance. I know your room is not big so moving things around may be limited by room dimensions but first thing I would do is plop your listening chair where it has been and then one speaker at a time move them back towards the rear wall and then back away from the wall until you find where the bass sounds most natural, articulated and punchy. Once you figure out the optimum position from a bass perspective one speaker at a time, I would then play with how wide apart they should be to optimize stage width while maintaining the most focused and solid center image. Once that has been determined, I would play with toe-in to optimize high-frequency smoothness and play with the rake angle on the speaker stands so that the tweeters are shooting at your ear level. If things are locked in at that point but you are still experiencing a little too boomy bass then at that point I would play with moving your listening chair back and forth little by little until you get the best balance and then you can re-tweak at that point in things like toe-in, rake angle, etc...Hope that's helpful.
I've tried all of this, though it may be that the caps in the PL HP and the speakers in General have not run in yet...
Overall the EL34 sounds more balanced. They are not real extended at either extreme, though the KT-120 doesn't sound as sweet and is a little bottom heavy at this point.
I'll keep playing... :-)
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  #26  
Old 08-25-2014, 01:09 PM
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Interesting journey - appreciate the updates. The Nordost will make some difference, I suspect. The Evos seem to need a lot of current for maximum bass extension and definition - even at low volume levels. But the cables do play a part.
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Old 08-25-2014, 08:16 PM
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Fully broken in or not, it's nice to hear an update from you. Keep us posted.
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  #28  
Old 08-26-2014, 01:36 PM
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I am expecting new Nordost Heimdall 2 speaker cables, interconnect and jumpers to arrive this afternoon.
Very anxious to hear this pairing. I listened to a set of the new Red Dawn 2's last week with my setup and liked it a lot.
Seems to balance the warmth of the PL HP and SF EVOs very well. Better transient snap and also stiffer cleaner bass.
Hopefully the Heimdall 2 will be even better... I will post update later tonight once they are installed and settled a bit.
I had them burned in for four days on a Nordost VIDAR machine so they hopefully won't need to much time to get on song.
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  #29  
Old 08-26-2014, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmalak View Post
Jason...I also think the caps in the SF GEs crossover as well as the drivers will also take some time to settle in. Also, as it relates to low frequencies with the KT-120s being "overcooked" can you explain what you mean and how the low frequency sonics are different with the EL34s in place? Just trying to understand what you mean by overcooked as it may also be a situation where speaker placement or listener chair placement changes can change the perceived boominess of a speaker in a room (an interesting experiment is to just play a low frequency tone burst or warble and put it on repeat and just move your chair around back and forth and left and right and see if it makes a change in how you hear the low frequencies and how tight, articulated and punchy they are in some positions vs. perhaps being too much, boomy or "overcooked" in other positions. There are bass nodes in some areas in the room where the standing waves build up and result in excessive bass and other areas where there are bass suckouts. The trick is finding where you get the best balance. I know your room is not big so moving things around may be limited by room dimensions but first thing I would do is plop your listening chair where it has been and then one speaker at a time move them back towards the rear wall and then back away from the wall until you find where the bass sounds most natural, articulated and punchy. Once you figure out the optimum position from a bass perspective one speaker at a time, I would then play with how wide apart they should be to optimize stage width while maintaining the most focused and solid center image. Once that has been determined, I would play with toe-in to optimize high-frequency smoothness and play with the rake angle on the speaker stands so that the tweeters are shooting at your ear level. If things are locked in at that point but you are still experiencing a little too boomy bass then at that point I would play with moving your listening chair back and forth little by little until you get the best balance and then you can re-tweak at that point in things like toe-in, rake angle, etc...Hope that's helpful.
Hi Cyril,

Thank you again for your input.
I ended up shifting both speakers and my listening couch about 2" to the left and it seems to have made all the difference.
Appears I was too perfectly measured into the center of my room and it was causing a bass node of some sort. I had already tried everything else and I hadn't thought about shifting things slightly off center and it seems to have removed the heavy handed bass. Now just waiting for my Nordost stuff to show up. :-)
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  #30  
Old 08-26-2014, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavarian05 View Post
Hi Cyril, Thank you again for your input. I ended up shifting both speakers and my listening couch about 2" to the left and it seems to have made all the difference. Appears I was too perfectly measured into the center of my room and it was causing a bass node of some sort. I had already tried everything else and I hadn't thought about shifting things slightly off center and it seems to have removed the heavy handed bass. Now just waiting for my Nordost stuff to show up. :-)
Jason...that's awesome. I think the Heimdall 2s will tighten things up as well. Glad that worked out for you
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