The Immensity of The Cosmos

[GaryProtein]

Originally Posted by Still-One

"If" the universe has a specific size and shape I am most interested in what is beyond that!!

NOTHING in the most basic, non-philosophical sense of the word. Don't try to define it because the more you define it, the more "something" you make out if it.

A group of my colleagues and I discussed this for a couple of months, and the best definition of "nothing" we came up with was "undefined", in the same sense that division by zero is undefined.

[JemHadar]

So the universe is big, but is it infinite ?

For the universe to be finite it would have to have positive curvature. Measurements, so far, point to a flat, thus infinite universe. But then, it is probably so big that the cosmological horizons (yes there are several) would prohibit us from ever making the measurement to the accuracy required to establish the exact curvature.

The thing is that an infinite universe gives rise to a special kind of weirdness that is much more disconcerting than the fact that the universe is big. For one, there would be infinite copies of yourself and infinite copies of your sound systems with all possible setups. So don't feel too bad if you did not buy that cable. One of your others surely did.

On a more poetic note. "Revel in your time". At some point in the very far future, inhabitants of the then merged Andromeda/Milky Way Galaxy will only be able to observe their own galaxy. No light/information from other galaxies will be able to reach them anymore courtesy of the accelerating expansion of the universe giving rise to those previously mentioned pesky horizons.

For those willing to dive deeper and who are not afraid of some hardcore math, the book "Cycles of Time" by Roger Penrose is a fascinating read. Entropy is at the heart of his argument. His proposition is very elegant and for me personally makes the most sense.

It is not because we do not understand something it does not have a rational or logic behind it. It is like pondering whether or not flight for objects heavier than air is possible when gazing at a flock of seagulls. If one looks back at the achievements in science and mathematics in the last couple of hundred years one can only wonder what is ahead of us.

Although the Standard Model (terrible name) is running into some roadblocks at this point in time.

Those who crack "Quantum Gravity" and solve the problem of "Dark Matter" and "Dark Energy" will hold the keys to the universe. Each and every one of us, who dwell in it, are for all intents and purposes the Universe becoming self aware. For the baryonic part of it anyway :-)

[djwhog]

OK My Take Alpha-Omega




Line from Parent Hood "It never ever ends! It's like your Aunt Edna's ass. It goes on forever and it's just as frightening. There is no end zone. You never cross the goal line, spike the ball and do your touchdown dance. Never!"

[radio times]

Me too. We are a tiny fragment,nay spot of sand in a not especially big galaxy,yet we think we will have empirical and objective knowledge of everything. We would have been obliterated by asteroids had it not been for the failed star Jupiter and it's magnetic field. Our universe is but a tiny fragment of the Milky way. We spin at the correct speed, at precisely the correct angle, with a precise distance from our star, and a handy moon to stop endless tidal waves, with a huge panoply of life, and it has nothing to do with man.

[Questortapes74]

Excellent discussion. I have always been fascinated with the stars since childhood and over the last several years have focused on the stars that are ascribed to the constellation of Orion. Always left with a sense of awe of the continued discoveries that are published just within this constellation. My deepest thoughts tend to oscillate between the lyrics of “Mystic Rhythms” by Rush and the wisdom of the late Carl Sagan...

Rush

“Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.” Carl Sagan

Regards

[JemHadar]

Very eloquent

https://youtu.be/BYhKblvWjKk

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Jem666

Very eloquent

https://youtu.be/BYhKblvWjKk

[radio times]

I'm still convinced the big cheese is infinite, that everything he makes by mere thought, though finite, is re created infinitely, albeit finite again in it's turn, and that being infinite, the universe is infinite, otherwise you have to put a brake on HIS infinity, which coming from a species that has only been around a couple of hundred thousand years, if that, is plainly ludicrous. Just because we are stuck, like everything else, in the twin finite prisons of space and time, doesn't mean their creator is.

[GaryProtein]

Originally Posted by radio times

Me too. We are a tiny fragment,nay spot of sand in a not especially big galaxy,yet we think we will have empirical and objective knowledge of everything. We would have been obliterated by asteroids had it not been for the failed star Jupiter and it's magnetic field. Our universe is but a tiny fragment of the Milky way. We spin at the correct speed, at precisely the correct angle, with a precise distance from our star, and a handy moon to stop endless tidal waves, with a huge panoply of life, and it has nothing to do with man.

Originally Posted by radio times

ET would never be able to find us, we are too small. In many ways, in comparison with 'the creator' we are very much like robots; 7 virtues, 7 vices, with only the gifts of intellect, imagination and extension to make us feel 'big'. Sperm wales have far bigger brains, if they had arms and legs we could be their pets. If you have a wooden hi fi rack, well, we can't even make the tree it came from. We think we own and have solely created these 'human qualities', when in truth they are gifts, just like love, providence and inspiration.

Originally Posted by radio times

I'm still convinced the big cheese is infinite, that everything he makes by mere thought, though finite, is re created infinitely, albeit finite again in it's turn, and that being infinite, the universe is infinite, otherwise you have to put a brake on HIS infinity, which coming from a species that has only been around a couple of hundred thousand years, if that, is plainly ludicrous. Just because we are stuck, like everything else, in the twin finite prisons of space and time, doesn't mean their creator is.

I am really curious why you keep peddling the god stuff here because it doesn't help to answer any of the basic questions.

[Canonicus]

Originally Posted by GaryProtein

I am really curious why you keep peddling the god stuff here because it doesn't help to answer any of the basic questions.

So...Whats wrong with mentioning the "God" stuff when your talking about the universe?
Seems to me any reasonable discussion should include the possibility of a divine infinite creator working well beyond our puny understanding.