Bookshelf Speaker Options for MA12000

[PeterMusic]

Originally Posted by knecht

I considered the TuneTots but kind of concerned they only go down to 65Hz vs 40Hz of the others.

I agree the low end is an issue with stand-mounts. If a sub will fit, I recommend it with any of these

[PHC1]

Bass is not an "issue", it is a "blessing" with stand mounted speakers. What can be achieved with stand mounted speakers and a good quality sub, appropriate for the size of the listening space, is what full range speakers that are poorly matched to the size of the room can only dream of.

Good luck dealing with speakers that couple heavily to the walls and/or excite room modes and create standing waves that obliterate the purity of the midrange on every bass note. With a well designed, adjustable sub, all that can be dialed in to much greater satisfaction.

A crossover such as a Bryston 10B-SUB between the preamp and amp and to split the signal before it even gets to the amps is the best way to go but now we are getting into a complicated setup... Would be cheaper to find a more appropriate room than getting into crossovers and a stereo pair of subs

[BuffaloBill]

Originally Posted by PHC1

A crossover such as a Bryston 10B-SUB between the preamp and amp and to split the signal before it even gets to the amps is the best way to go but now we are getting into a complicated setup... Would be cheaper to find a more appropriate room than getting into crossovers and a stereo pair of subs

Very well said. That is why most settle for a quality 3-way.

[SAM992]

Originally Posted by BuffaloBill

Very well said. That is why most settle for a quality 3-way.

and the XR50 is just about one of the only 3 way "Book shelf" speakers out there.

[BuffaloBill]

Originally Posted by SAM992

and the XR50 is just about one of the only 3 way "Book shelf" speakers out there.

It is indeed but you are not going to get the same quality bass performance and efficiency typical of floorstanding units.

[SAM992]

Originally Posted by BuffaloBill

It is indeed but you are not going to get the same quality bass performance and efficiency typical of floorstanding units.

of course not, in a perfect world, I'd have the room size / space for XR100's... or something else in the price range. But for being "Bookshelf" these are amazing... a large part of this is their 81db sensitivity rating... they are engineered for bass.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by BuffaloBill

It is indeed but you are not going to get the same quality bass performance and efficiency typical of floorstanding units.

That’s an overgeneralization. There are very high quality stand mounted speakers with bass articulation and perceived bass qualities that far exceed some lesser/poorer design floorstanding models. Quantity is never an indication of quality and I’ll take a speaker that sings down to 35-40 Hz and signs off cleanly than a speaker that tries to reach and plumb 20 Hz and fails miserably with bloated, poorly controlled and overly ripe bass because of the trade offs of drivers vs cost. Not to mention that clean 20 Hz requires a room of at least 28 feet long (half wave). Everything under that is a compromise at best. 20 Hz is a 56 ft wavelength.

[SAM992]

Originally Posted by PHC1

That’s an overgeneralization. There are very high quality stand mounted speakers with bass articulation and perceived bass qualities that far exceed some lesser/poorer design floorstanding models. Quantity is never an indication of quality and I’ll take a speaker that sings down to 35-40 Hz and signs off cleanly than a speaker that tries to reach and plumb 20 Hz and fails miserably with bloated, poorly controlled and overly ripe bass because of the trade offs of drivers vs cost. Not to mention that clean 20 Hz requires a room of at least 28 feet long (half wave). Everything under that is a compromise at best. 20 Hz is a 56 ft wavelength.

Exactly this... a pair of $4000 bookshelves will far out preftrorm a pair of $500-$1000 floor standing speakers in many cases... what people should look at is the measurements of the speaker first, and then actually hear them. I was dead set against bookshelf in my 12x13 room until I heard them... then I became fixed on them...

while using a dB meter with a bar chart that reads the SPL at various frequencies, I've seen how much 20hz-40hz is coming out of these "little" speakers ... cleanly mind you, even though they're not rated for lower than 40hz.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by SAM992

Exactly this... a pair of $4000 bookshelves will far out preftrorm a pair of $500-$1000 floor standing speakers in many cases... what people should look at is the measurements of the speaker first, and then actually hear them. I was dead set against bookshelf in my 12x13 room until I heard them... then I became fixed on them...

while using a dB meter with a bar chart that reads the SPL at various frequencies, I've seen how much 20hz-40hz is coming out of these "little" speakers ... cleanly mind you, even though they're not rated for lower than 40hz.

I’ve heard stand mounted speakers outperforming floor standers at 3x the cost. We all know the price vs performance graph is not linear in this hobby.

Our ears are also not linear but closer to logorithmic in terms of sensitivity to frequencies with the midrange of our 20-20KHz or more like 20-12Khz past 50 years of age

Many animals sense lower frequencies as well as higher frequencies much better. Survival. We don’t process lower frequencies as well. Fletcher Munson knew that with his studies of the subject since the 1930’s. Hence we had loudness buttons to compensate for that fact. At lower levels, we feel we need our bass to be turned up.

So why fight nature? First, I have always advocated and will continue to be an advocate for speakers that focus on midrange qualities. It is what we are most sensitive to.

As we age, the tweeters become less critical but can still be irritating, even at 12KHz, so I still prefer silk or soft dome to metal. My preference.

Secondly and very important that speakers do not overpower the rooms they are placed in or the glorious midrange you paid for will be ruined with bass overhang and bloat.

I prefer a smaller, tastier portion of filet mignon to a huge but tasteless hunk of steak at a restaurant. Quality to quantity.

Don’t worry about the bass and full range. Worry about the type of sound that appeals to your ears on your favorite music and human voice. A speaker like that will be enjoyed for a very long time. As far as bass, Santa can always drop by one Xmas and solve that problem with a nice sub or two if one has been exceptionally good.


As far as measurements... Any 2 way speaker with a mid-bass driver can reach 20Hz. The output level however will be some perhaps 12-24dB down at that point and useless to our ears. We are not perfect and neither are our speakers. My own Harbeth 30.2 will reach 20 Hz and make a very audible rumble still but it will be significantly down from the 32Hz where they are still in the game. That’s fine for now. I will be adding subs but it is not a pressing priority for me. I’m enjoying them as is with a very musical and engaging response in my 30x30 ft room which can accommodate any full range speaker.

[McMan]

FYI - today on Instagram Sonus Faber posted, "Something new is finally coming, a project thought up in our head many years ago that now exists as part of the Sonus Faber Heritage Line. Stay tuned on our channels for more!" Might want to wait and see what they have up their sleeve.

I highly recommend the Sonus Faber Guarneri Tradition speaker. One of the most elegantly designed bookshelf speakers on the market can also reproduce instruments and voices gracefully. I believe this speaker will matched well with the MA12000 because of the tube pre-amplification section and the newer McIntosh amplifier design.

Note: I would switch out the McIntosh Tubes in the pre-amp section for Gold Lions. I found more clarity within instruments and voices with the gold lions in place.