Shindo D'Yquem's

[kev313]

Maybe I'm the serial poster. Because I'm going to contradict what JH said. Kind of.

It will work. In the sense that sound will come from your speakers. Maybe even loud sound. Probably not good sound. So I guess it depends on what you are trying to achieve.

When it comes to any brand, but this brand in particular, everyone who wants to not waste their money should STOP EQUATING ABILITY TO ACHIEVE VOLUME WITH PROPER PERFORMANCE OF AN AMPLIFIER.

There. I said it at a high volume.

Truly, because it can go loud does not mean it sounds as it should.

Because I touched on this all of one thread down, I am just going to repeat myself:

I've heard reports that vintage Tannoy can work. I have no experience. I did use modern Tannoys (Yorkminsters) and found it to be among the worst matches for my GM70 amps. Great speakers, just gorgeous, but they did best with solid state heavyweights for me. Their idea of high sensitivity is more of a marketing concept. Coupled with thick heavy cones, it really choked the sound.

People report different experiences. I have no doubt that Shindo amps can sound great on almost any speakers. My experience consists of the following amps - Montille el84, Sinhonia, Montrachet, Lafon GM70s - on the following speakers - Devore Super 8, Devore 9, Musical Affairs Crescendo, Tannoy Yorkminster, Shindo Latour 604, Oris Horns on JBL bass bins, Cain and Cain Abby's, Klipsch Forte, Klipsch Heresy, Klipsch Cornwalls, and Audio Note E-LX signature.

After all sorts of combinations, I can tell you that is MY OPINION that Shindo does, indeed, work well on everything. BUT Shindo shines and will transform your idea of what constitutes a listening experience with high efficiency, high impedance, speakers either horn based or with lightweight cones. The devil is in the details and these types of speakers present less of a barrier or obstacle for your amp. This applies to all amps but bear in mind - and I don't know why people don't pay more heed to this fact - Shindo was designed to make sound in the context of such a system. We are all pretty confident in our abilities to make nice systems, but if you are investing in Shindo gear it makes sense to me to invest in the designer's vision. Did my Shindo and Tannoy sound bad. No! I lived with it happily and for years. But there is better. I'd be willing to wager that an ebay pair of 604 in a somewhat competently designed enclosure would trounce my Yorkies in the areas of music reproduction that matter most to me and are the specialty of Shindo.

As always, your experience may differ and depend on matters as variable as ear size, hair and wax content. Not to mention your room, ability to appreciate good sound, ability to figure out what kind of sound YOU like, and the tolerance of your significant other. In other words, read, experiment, and have fun until you find what works. OR shortcut the process and speak to a great Shindo dealer. Or both.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Vinyljh

As I said, contradiction. The CC was never and not possible to wire for anything but 16ohms and would fail miserably on Harbeth's or other low impedance and low efficiency speakers. Amplifier tube failure would occur very prematurely as well.

I heard the Harbeth/Corton-Charlemage EL34 combo at Art's place, it was rather awful. Dull, boring and totally compressed. We swapped it out for DMN electronics within five minutes. Not my cup of java either but clearly drove the speakers much better. It is not a power issue, its a matching issue.

Jonathan

So Jonathan, if you read Art's review of the 40.1 speakers, it is obvious that either you or Art is not telling the truth in this story or you just have very different ears.
Art wrote that the sound of the CCs with the 40.1 was gorgeous.

[kev313]

Originally Posted by Jerome W

So Jonathan, if you read Art's review of the 40.1 speakers, it is obvious that either you or Art is not telling the truth in this story or you just have very different ears. Art wrote that the sound of the CCs with the 40.1 was gorgeous.

Maybe JH just has an idea of how much better the sound is supposed to be from the amplifier when it is used as intended. Maybe getting 30% of the intended performance sounds great but more appropriate speakers get you more. And better.

Just a thought, since you fellas tend to disagree.... And this is an important point to consider: Wouldn't it be easier for Shindo agents to say that it will work fine and make an easy sale? Instead these guys go out of their way to make that the brand is used as Shindo intended to ensure too performance and they get their heads torn off. Amazing!

Call Shindo and ask them what they think of the match. Call A23.

[Vinyljh]

A very good and always overlooked point, Kev- low moving mass, all things being equal, is MUCH better than higher moving mass. This is as important as impedance and efficiency. Shindo amps are designed for and sound their best into high impedance, high efficiency and low moving mass speakers. For instance, the now discontinued SoloVox had 7 grams or slightly less (6.7) grams of moving mass. The A23 22A Hommage has around 2 grams of moving mass as seen by the amplifier. The mass and cone area play together. For instance, a 10" cone of 40 grams versus a 18" of 55 grams, the 18" is easier to drive for a given output. Shindo makes several speakers that are part of what he referred to as his " music mind." Speakers that are similar in design are all that should be used for optimum results.

Tannoy- Old Tannoy, pre 1967, had very light cones, high impedance and high efficiency. With minimalist crossovers. The 1967-1974 version had a complex eq'd crossover, lower impedance and the post 1974 Tannoy's made today have very heavy cones with stiffening braces on the rear of the cone as well as lower impedance and complex crossovers... Not a good match for Shindo. Early ones are subjective sonically but work well electrically.

Its a complex topic and speaking of topics, we are way off now.

Jonathan

[Freestone]

JH. - what's the equivalent moving mass of the latours and petite latours?

[Vinyljh]

Roughly 55 grams or so for the Latour (15" woofer) and 25 grams for the Petite FC (12" woofer). I don't know exactly, this is a close approximation.

The light moving mass combined with the high efficiency of 100db and 16 ohm impedance are just some of the factors. But a really good starting point.

I'm not sure on the LM 755, this is also extremely low mass and surely under 10g if not under 7g for an 8" driver.

If you calculate the radiating area between driver sizes, it would be enlightening to see just how much bigger a18" is to a 15", a 15" is to a 12" and a 12" to an 8".

Jonathan

[Freestone]

Originally Posted by Vinyljh

Roughly 55 grams or so for the Latour (15" woofer) and 25 grams for the Petite FC (12" woofer). I don't know exactly, this is a close approximation. The light moving mass combined with the high efficiency of 100db and 16 ohm impedance are just some of the factors. But a really good starting point. I'm not sure on the LM 755, this is also extremely low mass and surely under 10g if not under 7g for an 8" driver. If you calculate the radiating area between driver sizes, it would be enlightening to see just how much bigger a18" is to a 15", a 15" is to a 12" and a 12" to an 8". Jonathan

Quite a large difference. The formula for area of a circle is pi (3.14) times radius-squared.

[davidoff]

If I may veer from the topic of speaker matching. For those who have done a comparison, what are the sonic characteristics of the d'yquem vs lafon gm70? Which will be able to provide the refinement that single ended triodes are known for?

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Vinyljh

As I said, contradiction. The CC was never and not possible to wire for anything but 16ohms and would fail miserably on Harbeth's or other low impedance and low efficiency speakers. Amplifier tube failure would occur very prematurely as well.

I heard the Harbeth/Corton-Charlemage EL34 combo at Art's place, it was rather awful. Dull, boring and totally compressed. We swapped it out for DMN electronics within five minutes. Not my cup of java either but clearly drove the speakers much better. It is not a power issue, its a matching issue.

Jonathan

" not my cup of tea either "
That is the whole point.
You not only do not like Shindo with Harbeth. You do not like Harbeth no matter the amp used.
The old debate of " Shindo sounding much better with other speakers" won't bring anything more.

I tried my Harbeth with various amps, tubes and SS. The Shindo's are able to produce great and beautiful ( I am not talking about big sound only ) sound with them just like any other amps.

I had a bass problem with my EMT cart and the Shindos and realized that my VTA was off completely ( it was set for my 103 ). Corrected and the sound is fabulous.

[kev313]

Originally Posted by davidoff

If I may veer from the topic of speaker matching. For those who have done a comparison, what are the sonic characteristics of the d'yquem vs lafon gm70? Which will be able to provide the refinement that single ended triodes are known for?

either. Please start a new topic in the Shibdo forum and we could discuss in detail.