Many a man has said - "don't mess with Shindo kit"

[Jerome W]

AntiFragile Joe,

I may have missed this but since how long did you have the VR ?
If you read the full Stereophile reviews of the Masseto and the VR, there are some references of the VR seeming less " alive ".
That is sometimes the impression when we progress towards higher end.
The sound is more relaxed, less strained and effortless. The impression of loss of energy is just an impression. Time is often the only thing needed to understand that.

[kev313]

Originally Posted by NOLG4EVR

Well said. Shindo speakers on order? Which ones?

Latour 604 field coils.

[shindostevesan]

Originally Posted by AntiFragile Joe

Respectfully, there is nothing wrong with my tubes, room, system, acoustics etc. My system consists of Shindo LaFon monos, VR Pre, DeVore 096 speakers, Shindo silver speaker cables, Shindo ICs, Mr. T. EMM Labs DAC2X, and a highly refined music server with digital sound correction. I know it is sacrilege to criticize any Shindo product, but I do not find the VR to be as resolved and dynamic as it should be. There is nothing wrong with my trying to improve the sound of my $20K preamp and others have provided thoughtful suggestions in this regard. I am not looking for a flame war, just trying to benefit from other users who have obviously experienced similar frustrations (which is the whole idea of an enthusiast message board). Thanks for any helpful suggestions.

Joe,
I had a similar experience with the Vosne Romanee. I upgraded from a Masseto and found the VR to be a little dark in character. I have mostly Shindo gear and nothing changed during the upgrade. Art Dudley commented similarly on the VR. On the plus side I believe the VR to have a tonal purity or correctness over the Masseto (and the Giscours which I now have). It was astounding with voices. Some no doubt would prefer the VR but I found the Giscours to be more of an in-step upgrade to the Masseto. It is even more alive and engaging. If most people arrive at the Giscours by upgrades, it is no wonder you don't see a lot of Petrus owners out there (besides the price). The Giscours is simply an end-of-the-journey type component, especially with the Homage T-1 pushing the phono stage.

[kev313]

That is, I think, an oversimplification of "dark" as used by Art.

From his review:

I did, of course, progress to music—and it sounded wonderful. The sound of the Vosne-Romanee was lush and richly colored, just as my experience with certain vintage tubes, transformers, and other components has led me to expect. But the V-R played records in a manner that was much more explicit than I expected: musically explicit, and sonically very detailed.

Being no more disciplined in my perceptions, and certainly no more intelligent, than the average audio hobbyist, I reflexively assumed that the Vosne-Romanee's greater detailing than my own Shindo Masseto meant that it must surely sound brighter than its less expensive stablemate. But when I swapped the Masseto back into the system, I realized that it was actually the brighter-sounding of the two, howsoever slightly. The V-R in fact sounded darker overall, with richer and more saturated colors, and with textures deeper than I'd heard before from my system, the relief of which (for want of a better word) was defined more by shade than by sun. The Vosne-Romanee was vernal in content, autumnal in style.

Here is perhaps the feyest thing I've ever written (don't expect me to make a habit of it): If music were a collection of paintings and sculptures, the Vosne-Romanee would be a gallery darker than the average, but with much clearer, stronger lighting trained on each individual work. Lacking that degree of resolution and sophistication, the Masseto really was the brighter and counterintuitively less detailed preamp—as was pretty much everything else.

[shindostevesan]

Originally Posted by kev313

That is, I think, an oversimplification of "dark" as used by Art.

From his review:

I did, of course, progress to music—and it sounded wonderful. The sound of the Vosne-Romanee was lush and richly colored, just as my experience with certain vintage tubes, transformers, and other components has led me to expect. But the V-R played records in a manner that was much more explicit than I expected: musically explicit, and sonically very detailed.

Being no more disciplined in my perceptions, and certainly no more intelligent, than the average audio hobbyist, I reflexively assumed that the Vosne-Romanee's greater detailing than my own Shindo Masseto meant that it must surely sound brighter than its less expensive stablemate. But when I swapped the Masseto back into the system, I realized that it was actually the brighter-sounding of the two, howsoever slightly. The V-R in fact sounded darker overall, with richer and more saturated colors, and with textures deeper than I'd heard before from my system, the relief of which (for want of a better word) was defined more by shade than by sun. The Vosne-Romanee was vernal in content, autumnal in style.

Here is perhaps the feyest thing I've ever written (don't expect me to make a habit of it): If music were a collection of paintings and sculptures, the Vosne-Romanee would be a gallery darker than the average, but with much clearer, stronger lighting trained on each individual work. Lacking that degree of resolution and sophistication, the Masseto really was the brighter and counterintuitively less detailed preamp—as was pretty much everything else.

We tend to use these audiophile terms, such as "dark", as short cuts. Thanks for posting Art's articulate long version, which I completely agree with. Dark is not meant as a pejorative audiophile term, as Art points out. I just didn't respond to it as positively as the "brighter" sound of the Masseto and Giscours.

[pitch perfect]

Originally Posted by kev313

That is, I think, an oversimplification of "dark" as used by Art.

From his review:

Lacking that degree of resolution and sophistication, the Masseto really was the brighter and counterintuitively less detailed preamp—as was pretty much everything else.

Thanks for posting Kev, you beat me to the quote--

-M

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by kev313

Latour 604 field coils.

Congrats Kev !

[AntiFragile Joe]

I have added pieces one at a time (and exhaustively tested and compared each incremental change) with this system and my other Shindo system (which is very dialed in). I spend a lot of time making small adjustments, trying different permutations and reversing changes for A/B tests. To be clear, there is not a problem with the VR. It is a very nice pre amp. In my system/room with my listening choices (mostly rock/jazz/classical DSDs, 24 bit and redbook files), I am not satisfied with it in its current state. I have been waiting for a used Giscours to appear but they do not appear very often. Until that time, I am always pleased to improve or optimize what I have. Thanks in advance for constructive responses.

[NOLG4EVR]

Originally Posted by kev313

Latour 604 field coils.

Congrat's. I'm sure you will love them.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by AntiFragile Joe

I have added pieces one at a time (and exhaustively tested and compared each incremental change) with this system and my other Shindo system (which is very dialed in). I spend a lot of time making small adjustments, trying different permutations and reversing changes for A/B tests. To be clear, there is not a problem with the VR. It is a very nice pre amp. In my system/room with my listening choices (mostly rock/jazz/classical DSDs, 24 bit and redbook files), I am not satisfied with it in its current state. I have been waiting for a used Giscours to appear but they do not appear very often. Until that time, I am always pleased to improve or optimize what I have. Thanks in advance for constructive responses.

Joe, the Giscours is the absolute killer preamp.
Dressed very classicaly, looks like a british Sir, it smokes down anything approached to it.
Selling such a marvel is rare indeed. I will die with mine.
Maybe that simply the flavor of the VR is not your taste.
VR and Giscours are two very different wines, from very different regions.

Do they sound close to each other, I do not know.
I would like to read a review of the Giscours by Art.