AC regenerator vs Power conditioner

[TOGA]

If my total load is within safe zone of P3. Will I get sonic benefit going P5 or even P10 ?
I will use PS audio for JVC projector, Oppo BD player, AV Processor. Total load is 500-600 watt at most.

Toga

[dubselect]

Originally Posted by Orb

Those who went P5 or P10,
did you ever get the chance to compare that to say the upper model conditioners from say Isotek/Isol-8/Shunyata?

Appreciate this is not usually possible, but would be great if some have that experience to share.
Thanks
Orb

I have both PS Audio P3 and Isotek power conditioner (Sirius), which is not upper model though.
But I discovered that each of the two products improves the soundquality of my system.
P3 brings dynamics to another level, improves bass quality and transparency, makes the overall sound more musical and more involving.
While Sirius removes background noise, adds some tiny details and totally removes graininess.
So I combined them into the chain: wall outlet->Sirius->P3->all audio components.
I also removed Sirius power inlet, one power plug and internal wiring and soldered my power cables straight to it's board. Sirus internal wiring is poor quality (it adds brightness and makes the sound "thin").
The only nuance is that Sirius still adds some sharpness to the upper midrange. So it is not totally harmless to the sound. But in my opinion it's good qualities outweights it's drawback.

Currently I am thinking of replacing Sirius with some better power conditioner which will not add that sharpness to the sound. And I am not sure that Aquarius, Sigmas or even Titan can provide this.

I heard good thing about Transparent Audio power condtitioners, but have never heard them.

There is also PS Audio Dectet. Are there any owners of this device here. I heard that Dectet "sounds" a bit bright. Is it true?

[Orb]

Thanks Dubselect,
somehow missed your response.
Well if you can get an audition with Evo upper range I would be curious.
Nothing like forum members making work for others, sorry
Appreciate this may not happen as the focus needs to be your needs.

There seems to be a definite upgrade with the latest Isotek models, so if you do test another Isotek will be interesting in comparison, that is if you have the pre Evo3 model.
Thanks again
Orb

[Glisse]

Orb,

AC is an area where the experiences of others are interesting, but whether these will apply to your components, in your AC environment, is a lottery.

This is most definitely an area where it is worthwhile to work with a friendly local dealer, or an accommodating distributor, to trial products in your own system. Even if it means paying more than buying at a discount on-line.

It is very easy to buy a product in this category and find it makes no discernible difference. Yet for others, the heavens have opened.

My own experiences are:

• I own Isotek EVO3 Aquarius (2), Shunyata Hydra 8, Shunyata Cyclops, Shunyata Hydra AV, Audio Magic XXX, PS Audio P3 (2), and Burmester 948.
• I have used in my system a PS Audio P10 and an Isotek Mosaic Genesis.

I think the P3 is considerably better than the Aquarius, but then it costs twice as much. The Isotek Mosaic Genesis is very good, and uses an AC Regenerator for source equipment, and a Titan for high current equipment. However, the output of the generator circuit is quite low, and could not run the preamp and DAC in my primary system. My DAC does draw an unusually high amount of current. But the Mosaic Genesis is expensive. Still, I find that Isotek's use of a regenerator circuit for source equipment much more successful than their passive filtered models for source equipment. I think the Titan component for high current devices is very good.

The Shunyata conditioners offer the best top end, in terms of purity and (potentially) low noise. However, the P3 has better isolation, so that you can run "crap" on one of the regenerated circuits such as switching power supplies for computer audio, etc, without it affecting your audio components.

The P3 differs from the P5 and the P10 in that it does not run the high current connection through the regeneration amp circuit. So you are not limited (as long as you stay below 2000 watts or so) on what amp you use with a P3, but it will not be as well isolated if that is important for the amp.

AC regenerators are not "green" devices - they can lower the efficiency of AC usage within your system anywhere between 20 to 40% depending on the design of their amplifier module. If you are looking to lower your power bill, or leave less of a carbon footprint, they should be avoided.

[Apexorca]

Our systems can gain a lot if they get clean power and a quiet earth.
I have tried some products in different systems and different locations.
Almost overtime there are possible improvements to gain .
Though, I think there is better to use regenerators to the front-end that not consumes that much power and also often have the same current all the time. The regenerator have therefore no problems to deliver the solid power and conditioners to the power amps there the power has to come fast and powerful as lightning. Regenerators can have problems to deliver the current that fast and the dynamic timbre fails.

Conditioners differs if they are to use for front end ore for power amps. Some have got different sockets for that.

I think Isotek EVO III Super Titan works very well with power conditioners in my system and others.
Nordost stuff for the front-end.

[Audioseduction]

I'm getting excellent results with using Shunyata Research Hydra Triton power conditioner for my front end and a pair of BPT 3.5 Signature Plus Ultra Isolators for my mono block amps. Now all 3 devices are plugged into their on 20amp dedicated circuit.

[Orb]

Thanks Glisse,
one aspect regarding PS Audio.
It seems the latest mains regeneration models are not as well isolated/filter as the PPP as they do let noise through (but not thd).
The thd and noise are in reality separate challenges to resolve.
Read this page with regards to using a basic noise sniffer on their home mains and also a PPP and then a P10.
Their experience with mains actually ties in with research done by the BBC several years ago where the whole house mains circuits act as both a large antenna and transmitter.
6moons audio reviews: Blue Horizon Noise Analyzer
An interesting read, as they also go further but just linked page 3 as it is specific to the PPP and P10.

Cheers
Orb

[audiohippo]

All my equipment is connected to the P10, which is taking 244-246v with 1.5% distortion down to 240v with 0.1%

However I am looking to add a dedicated line with a 5kVA balanced isolation transformer, this should provide a much cleaner signal for the P10.

[dubselect]

Originally Posted by Orb

Thanks Dubselect,
somehow missed your response.
Well if you can get an audition with Evo upper range I would be curious.
Nothing like forum members making work for others, sorry
Appreciate this may not happen as the focus needs to be your needs.

There seems to be a definite upgrade with the latest Isotek models, so if you do test another Isotek will be interesting in comparison, that is if you have the pre Evo3 model.
Thanks again
Orb

Well, I thought that I might help you so I purchased Isotek Aquarius Evo3.

Honestly I was sure that it will make my system sound bettee than Sirius. And it does!

But the difference is really massive. It is like replacing an existing components (amp and source) with a better one. No kidding!

This is the configuration of my current setup:

Wall outlet -> Isotek Aquarius -> PS Audio P3 -> the whole system (Linn Klimax DSM stream player and preamp, Klimax 320A active bookshelf speakers, Klimax 345 active subwoofer). All the cables (interconnects and power) are Bertram Cuprio Flow.

What I like about Aquarius - it is absolutely transparent. It does not influence tonal balance or changes soundstage etc. The overall soundquality remains the same if Aquarius is added to my system.

The difference between the three situations [1) the system connected straight to wall outlet; 2) the system connected through P3; 3) the system connected through Aquarius and P3] is massive!

Both of the power devices (P3 and Aquarius) significantly improve the soundquality of my system.
P3 massively improves dynamics, soundstage, placement of instruments, clarity; slightly improves resolution, tonal and timbral balance.
Aquarius massively improves resolution, separation of instruments; slightly improves dynamics, timbral balance, clarity.

Guys from PS Audio are right when they claim: "Certainly there’s no better method of dealing with AC power problems than a Power Plant, but even the venerable Power Plant AC regenerator itself isn’t all that kind to the AC coming into the Power Plant itself. ... Power Plants ... add back their share of power line noises ... It’s important to remember that a Power Plant is a large power amplifier and kicks back its share of differential mode line noise when its asked to regenerate new power to connected equipment."

So Power Plant together with a high-quality filter (which does not restrict dynamics) is the best solution for treating mains distortions.

These devices are not cheap, but, in my opninon, they worth every penny! They made my system shine. I have never thought my system could sound so great!

Originally Posted by Glisse

I think the P3 is considerably better than the Aquarius, but then it costs twice as much.

I would not say so. P3 and Aquarius do entirely different job. P3 regenerates power by producing a new sine-wave and stabilizing voltage. While Aquarius removes Common Mode and Differential Mode mains noise (by 60 dB).

Which one will be more useful in certain situation depends a lot on the following factors:
1) type and quality of power supplies of components in your system;
2) quantity of one or another mains distortions in every particular situation.

I found that they complement each other. And the best sound I could achieve out of my system results when it is powered from both devices at the same time.

[dubselect]

I continue admiring the effect Isotek Aquarius brought to my system. It is truly remarkable upgrade! Everything sound better with Aquarius. I can not imagine how I listened to the music before I purchased this power conditioner.

My audio system has never sounded so good! Excellent dynamics, unlimited resolution, unbelievably natural vocals, absolutely no harshness or graininess. It just sounds right, very very musical and tuneful.