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  #491  
Old 11-26-2020, 05:03 PM
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Apexorca Apexorca is offline
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Thank you!

Charles, your right, good wall sockets can make a difference. I use Furutech Rhodium wall sockets.
What is a WEL IC?

You know, when a system starts to perform at a high level everything counts. You can hear the slightest difference of change. Not so infrequently the small differences can be very important for the sound to go from good to excellent and really makes the music as good as it gets.
The hole thing about the current and earth is the base for the signalpath.
When I think about the term tweak, it's not really a tweak to get the electricity, current, earth great and right. It's the source where everything in the system begins. When this gets right, you raise the level in a way that normal tweaks does not.
It should be seen as an equal part of the system as amps and so on. I don't think it's possible to get the best out of all the units in a god system without taking good care of the earth and current.

As you, I also think that to be in a hurry in this hobby can be fatal for the performance from the gear.
Stay cool and happy Thanksgiving.
We don't celebrate it that much in Sweden. But I'v been to a restaurant in Manhattan NY during Thanksgiving and had the traditional meal. It was great and how full we became. Cab instead of a stroll to the hotel!
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  #492  
Old 11-27-2020, 01:56 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apexorca View Post
Thank you!

Charles, your right, good wall sockets can make a difference. I use Furutech Rhodium wall sockets.
What is a WEL IC?

You know, when a system starts to perform at a high level everything counts. You can hear the slightest difference of change. Not so infrequently the small differences can be very important for the sound to go from good to excellent and really makes the music as good as it gets.
The hole thing about the current and earth is the base for the signalpath.
When I think about the term tweak, it's not really a tweak to get the electricity, current, earth great and right. It's the source where everything in the system begins. When this gets right, you raise the level in a way that normal tweaks does not.
It should be seen as an equal part of the system as amps and so on. I don't think it's possible to get the best out of all the units in a god system without taking good care of the earth and current.

As you, I also think that to be in a hurry in this hobby can be fatal for the performance from the gear.
Stay cool and happy Thanksgiving.
We don't celebrate it that much in Sweden. But I'v been to a restaurant in Manhattan NY during Thanksgiving and had the traditional meal. It was great and how full we became. Cab instead of a stroll to the hotel!
Carl, totally agree. The sockets are very high quality hospital grade single outlet and direct wired into the fuse box but not audiophile grade. It is relatively inexpensive and will be the next thing to do. I will use AQ Edison's.

I looked up the cost of a balanced WEL IC (short for William E. Lowe, CEO of Audioquest). For one meter it is 7,000.00. The Wind IC is solid sliver and 3,000.00 for a one meter. It is totally equal with my other sub cables and cords.

I will probably keep the Wind in the system for that reason. What do you think?

Best

Charles

p.s. My IC's from my pre to my 1.25KW's are balanced WEL's of 24' in length. I have conveniently forgotten their cost. Mercifully wiped from my memory. It was most painful.

Last edited by Charles; 11-27-2020 at 01:59 PM.
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  #493  
Old 11-28-2020, 06:09 AM
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Apexorca Apexorca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post

I will probably keep the Wind in the system for that reason. What do you think?

Best

Charles

The cable issue is not easy and a tricky and controversial issue.

I'm not a pro. And my subjective answer is just due to my experiance as a enthusiast, so don't consider it as anything more. Some would of course disagree with me.

I'v been testing different cables for years in my systems and in some friends systems. In these system I can quite good predict the outcome with different brands and different levels in a serie. It's harder in a system you never heard. But there are often some things that are the same.

It's often the best to use cables from the same brand for a number of reasons.
Cables are filters and they will effect the sound. Cables that suits many different systems are often better than they who is more spesializet in just a few systems/speakers. Often the big brands are good and witch one you prefer is a matter of taste.

I'm not that familiar with Audioquest in my system appart from a CAT-cable (diamond) I tried in my MSB-digital source and as interconnects in my home-cinema system.

So, if your intention is to stick with Audioquest I think you should use the same type of cable-specification, same materials as silver or copper and so on, all over the system.
To mix impedance in different cables is often bad for timing, transients and resolution I think.

The biggest upgrade for me was when I start to use everything from Nordost. Both that I use just Valhalla and Valhalla 2 and QRT-system from them.

Maybe the least important cable due to my experience above is the IC-cable to the bottom end/sub. (It's important but the least important.)

So, if you dare. Nordost have got a box to borrow with a lot of cables and I think QRT-things in it.
The worst thing that can happen is that you don't like it in your system and get some fun and experience.

Have a nice weekend
/Carl
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Last edited by Apexorca; 11-30-2020 at 01:22 AM.
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  #494  
Old 11-29-2020, 02:40 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apexorca View Post
The cable issue is not easy and a tricky and controversial issue.

I'm not a pro. And my subjective answer is just due to my experiance as a enthusiast, so don't consider it as anything more. Some would of course disagree with me.

I'v been testing different cables for years in my systems and in some friends systems. In these system I can quite good predict the outcome with different brands and different levels in a serie. It's harder in a system you never heard. But there are often some things that are the same.

It's often the best to use cables from the same brand for a number of reasons.
Cables are filters and they will effect the sound. Cables that suits many different systems are often better than they who is more spesializet in just a few systems/speakers. Often the big brands are good and witch one you prefer is a matter of taste.

I'm not that familiar with Audioquest in my system appart from a CAT-cable (diamond) I tried in my MSB-digital source and as interconnects in my home-cinema system.

So, if your intention is to stick with Audioquest I think you should use the same type if cable-specification, same materials as silver or copper and so on, all over the system.
To mix impedance in different cables is often bad for timing, transients and resolution I think.

The biggest upgrade for me was when I start to use everything from Nordost. Both that I use just Valhalla and Valhalla 2 and QRT-system from them.

Maybe the least important cable due to my experience above is the IC-cable to the bottom end/sub. (It's important but the least important.)

So, if you dare. Nordost have got a box to borrow with a lot of cables and I think QRT-things in it.
The worst thing that can happen is that you don't like it in your system and get some fun and experience.

Have a nice weekend
/Carl
Carl, you make some really good points. The best one is the wall sockets. If I could snap my fingers and make Edison's appear and pay the money I would instantly do so. The cost is minimal and this really should be done.

However, this amounts to going to the main fuse box and throwing four circuit breakers and then disconnecting a lot of equipment. I am going to do this at some point. In my system the improvement could be minimal because the current to the Niagara's is already very good with my existing 20 amp wall sockets. If I were going directly from the wall to my amps or my sources it would be a different story. I should have had this done with the installation of my Niagara's.

One of the great things about the Niagara's is they supply each 1.25KW with a 90 amp instantaneous current bank of very pure current. Also the 7000 which I use for all my sources has individual isolation transformers for each source. I don't know how much difference going to "superb" from "very good" current will make because of the power conditioners. But it still is something that should be done.

I see that you agree that the cable going to the sub while very important is less important that the mids/highs cables. The Wind is definitely equal to my other cables so little would be gained. I think if I had your Krells that need so much more current than my 1.25KW's and with no current bank but relying totally on the current from the wall, your use of the Furutech's becomes much more important.

Another excellent point is the use of the same brand of cables and cords. As you point out you can hear everything. Any change in cables or cords can be heard. I like the solid silver because of the increased resolution/clarity they bring to the system. But if you have a system that is on the rough side with a mid/treble that can sound hard, copper is less expensive and better.

I can't go with Nordost because of the incredible cost it would be. As you know IC's and cables are difficult to sell on the secondary market. My WEL 24' balanced IC (I looked it up) goes for 33,000.00 now. I don't remember how much I paid but it wasn't that much. You have all your gear between your Fenice's which means you must carefully isolate your gear. I spent the money so that I could locate my Thor there and isolate my sources by removing them from the sound as far as possible and even then have them on Wilson Pedestals.

AQ silver is incredibly expensive. I use a combination of silver and copper/silver cables, cords, and IC's in my sub system but pure silver everywhere else.

I enjoy following your system very much. I do believe that you are an expert on cables, IC's and cords because of the extensive testing you have done. You have the best of amps and pre but have saved a lot of money at the same time, allowing you to test and improve on the basis of your experience. I have not been able to do this. I think you are achieving the very best out of your system by experimentation.

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 11-30-2020 at 02:11 PM.
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  #495  
Old 12-02-2020, 04:34 AM
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Apexorca Apexorca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Carl, you make some really good points.

I enjoy following your system very much. I do believe that you are an expert on cables, IC's and cords because of the extensive testing you have done. You have the best of amps and pre but have saved a lot of money at the same time, allowing you to test and improve on the basis of your experience. I have not been able to do this. I think you are achieving the very best out of your system by experimentation.

Best

Charles
Thank you. I'm absolutely no expert on cables, but I know tiny bit how it works in my system. But you know, every time you change something in your system you can make new adjustments here and there, speaker placement and so on. Though, I don't do that all the time so therefore everything is a bit of a guess how it will turn out. There is always something to get better and better all the time, it's very interesting, but it's a hobby and the music is the essential goal.

Quote (Charles):
"I see that you agree that the cable going to the sub while very important is less important that the mids/highs cables. The Wind is definitely equal to my other cables so little would be gained. I think if I had your Krells that need so much more current than my 1.25KW's and with no current bank but relying totally on the current from the wall, your use of the Furutech's becomes much more important."

This is a good point. I never really thought of in that way. Krell is probably more dependent on fast current delivery from the wall. It's probably very true.
It' suits my plan to change the cable (just a bit better than standard) from the fusebox to the wall socket to a much better one.
I'v already changed the fuse in the fuse box to a high-end fuse.
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  #496  
Old 12-02-2020, 02:47 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apexorca View Post
Thank you. I'm absolutely no expert on cables, but I know tiny bit how it works in my system. But you know, every time you change something in your system you can make new adjustments here and there, speaker placement and so on. Though, I don't do that all the time so therefore everything is a bit of a guess how it will turn out. There is always something to get better and better all the time, it's very interesting, but it's a hobby and the music is the essential goal.

Quote (Charles):
"I see that you agree that the cable going to the sub while very important is less important that the mids/highs cables. The Wind is definitely equal to my other cables so little would be gained. I think if I had your Krells that need so much more current than my 1.25KW's and with no current bank but relying totally on the current from the wall, your use of the Furutech's becomes much more important."

This is a good point. I never really thought of in that way. Krell is probably more dependent on fast current delivery from the wall. It's probably very true.
It' suits my plan to change the cable (just a bit better than standard) from the fusebox to the wall socket to a much better one.
I'v already changed the fuse in the fuse box to a high-end fuse.
Carl, I'm glad you agree about the wall sockets. I use 20 amp circuit breakers, one for each 20 amp line, number ten copper wire, and then a very high quality one socket hospital grade wall socket. The connection is very tight. My position/belief is that if the Niagara can create an instantaneous 90 amp current reservoir for each 1.25KW from a wall current this good, I probably should leave well enough alone. It's one thing to experiment with cables etc. You can easily do that. But it would take a significant effort to replace these very high quality sockets with higher quality ones, which would cause the Niagara's less stress but would this decrease in stress be audible? In your case, no question and I would have the Furutech's installed or their Edison equivalents immediately. I had a discussion with my friend at AQ about this very issue because I was ready to do this at the time the new power conditioner were installed. He said the Edison's weren't needed. But I still wish I'd had it done. The dealer was in the house. They are well qualified. Alas, I didn't do it. Wish I had.

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 12-02-2020 at 02:54 PM.
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  #497  
Old 12-02-2020, 05:55 PM
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The Niagara must be great. Good choice. I never heard them, but I know that Michael Fremer think Audioquest Niagara 7000 are better then the more expensive Shunyata power stuff. That's probably worth to consider.
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  #498  
Old 12-02-2020, 06:55 PM
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The Niagara must be great. Good choice. I never heard them, but I know that Michael Fremer think Audioquest Niagara 7000 are better then the more expensive Shunyata power stuff. That's probably worth to consider.
Oh NO, Michael Fremer is going to get a Puma Pounce

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  #499  
Old 12-03-2020, 12:00 AM
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The Niagara must be great. Good choice. I never heard them, but I know that Michael Fremer think Audioquest Niagara 7000 are better then the more expensive Shunyata power stuff. That's probably worth to consider.
Carl, the Niagara 7000 is 9,500.00 dollars. Everest 8,000.00. The Niagara 5000 has jumped to 5,000.00. I have three 5000's and one 7000. Wouldn't think about Shunyata because no current reservoir and no isolation transformers. 7000 weighs in at 86 pounds and has isolation transformers for its source outlets; 5000 at 38. Everest at 34 pounds. Not to mention the awkward shape that would never fit into a rack or cabinet like mine. The current reservoir is a true reservoir. Unless you have a sophisticated power meter your electric bill will demonstrate the current drain similar to a large class A amp for each Niagara. This can have a very significant effect on you power bill if left on. The Niagara's have an auto switch that turns it off an on and you can hear it switch on and off with the amps turning on and off. They also have a manual switch which I never use. The Niagara's are very sophisticated instruments and very significantly improve the power supplies of my Mac amps and my Mac source gear. They don't need any accessory grounding wires.

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 12-03-2020 at 12:07 AM.
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  #500  
Old 12-03-2020, 12:27 AM
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But... but... but the Everest is simply mind blowing! The Absolute Sound just said so!

Mind blowing indeed when every audio component that has a cord has a power supply which converts AC to pure DC and uses the DC voltage rails to amplify signals in the case of amplifiers for example or inside a DAC or anything else really... Those damn lazy power supplies. Just can't trust them.

But Paul McGowan says dump your power conditioner and go with a power "regenerator" https://youtu.be/8oFlgPPp9XA
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