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Power Conditioners Voltage regulation to AC Regeneration

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  #11  
Old 11-05-2018, 08:31 AM
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When you stand behind the Niagara -> on the far right side. Upper or lower plug doesn't matter.
AND! Get a Thunder as a minimum-level Power Cord. You won't regret that.
(Till yesterday i had a WireWorld Silver Elektra 7 for my Pre and changed it with a AQ Tornado. The change was really dramatic.)
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2018, 10:48 AM
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I recently bought 2 5000's and 1 7000, probably 3 months ago. There is no mention of the website of an improved 5000. If you are going to use the AQ system for an amp only as I do, the 5000 provides the same level of quality as the 7000. It provides 90 amps peak current. However, there is very little difference than the 1000 for sources. With 7000 you get high current 90 amp transformer and 8 isolation transformers for sources. The 5000 does not provide this. I seriously doubt that AQ is going to fundamentally redesign their power conditioners anytime soon but maybe I'm incorrect. The use of these transformers (5000 or 7000 in engaged mode) can increase your electric bill because they can create the appearance of a constant 9-10 amp draw per unit. However, this did not happen with me. It depends on the sophistication of your electric service. With the 1000 since it has no transformers this potentially fictitious current draw is not a problem. Before buying a 5000 or 7000 I recommend reading the OM carefully. It's on the website.
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2018, 11:55 AM
GSOphile GSOphile is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
I recently bought 2 5000's and 1 7000, probably 3 months ago. There is no mention of the website of an improved 5000. If you are going to use the AQ system for an amp only as I do, the 5000 provides the same level of quality as the 7000. It provides 90 amps peak current. However, there is very little difference than the 1000 for sources. With 7000 you get high current 90 amp transformer and 8 isolation transformers for sources. The 5000 does not provide this. I seriously doubt that AQ is going to fundamentally redesign their power conditioners anytime soon but maybe I'm incorrect. The use of these transformers (5000 or 7000 in engaged mode) can increase your electric bill because they can create the appearance of a constant 9-10 amp draw per unit. However, this did not happen with me. It depends on the sophistication of your electric service. With the 1000 since it has no transformers this potentially fictitious current draw is not a problem. Before buying a 5000 or 7000 I recommend reading the OM carefully. It's on the website.
It's not the isolation transformers that provide the 90 amps peak current. This is the Transient Power Correction feature that's available on both the 5000 and the 7000. The isolation transformers (there are two on the 7000) provide additional noise reduction for source components. Both units provide identical capabilities r.e. HC components. As a 5000 owner I can vouch for this unit's improved dynamics.
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2018, 01:26 PM
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Found a review of the 5000 AND 7000:
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipmen..._5000_7000.htm

Edit: There are lots of words written there, but...
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Last edited by GBP; 11-06-2018 at 03:12 AM.
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2018, 02:10 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSOphile View Post
It's not the isolation transformers that provide the 90 amps peak current. This is the Transient Power Correction feature that's available on both the 5000 and the 7000. The isolation transformers (there are two on the 7000) provide additional noise reduction for source components. Both units provide identical capabilities r.e. HC components. As a 5000 owner I can vouch for this unit's improved dynamics.
I don't believe it's possible to have the transient power correction (TPC) without the transformer. You are correct that according to the OM (see p.12) of the 5000, a portion of the noise dissipation is provided by the transformer which is the reason that for sources, the 5000 should be in the engaged mode. However, the other function of the transformer (also see p.12) is to provide for the 90 amp current bank. Without the transformer this 90 amp current reservoir and TPC feature cannot exist. Again, the 5000 must be in the engaged mode otherwise there is no TPC. In my purchase I went into significant depth about this because since I only use the 7000 for sources, the 7000 would have to be always in the engaged mode. I didn't like this. As an incidental finding, I learned about the function of transformer for the amps. Unless you have an amp plugged in, the standby mode is not available. I finally decided to take a chance and buy the 7000 because I wanted the individual isolation transformers for my sources also. As I said my experience has been quite positive because there has been no significant increase in my electric bill. The 7000 remains in the engaged mode 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Unless the amps are on the 5000's remain in the standby mode. To anyone considering a purchase, you could potentially be adding 30 amps an hour to your bill (10 amps per device). I found this concerning. AQ is quite upfront about this possibility and this is the reason for the standby feature. Read OM carefully before purchase.

Last edited by Charles; 11-05-2018 at 02:23 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-05-2018, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Unless the amps are on the 5000's remain in the standby mode.
Just to be sure. (It has been a long working day... It's 07:45 PM here now.)

I have the 5000.
I should switch 5000 to engaged mode and leave it there forever.
If the Amp is off i don't have a higher bill.

But... If i switch all on to have a nice 6-hour listening session my bill will increase more than normal. Is this right till here?


(My plan is to switch the chain/5000 completely off when not used.)
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  #17  
Old 11-05-2018, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
I don't believe it's possible to have the transient power correction (TPC) without the transformer. You are correct that according to the OM (see p.12) of the 5000, a portion of the noise dissipation is provided by the transformer which is the reason that for sources, the 5000 should be in the engaged mode. However, the other function of the transformer (also see p.12) is to provide for the 90 amp current bank. Without the transformer this 90 amp current reservoir and TPC feature cannot exist. Again, the 5000 must be in the engaged mode otherwise there is no TPC. In my purchase I went into significant depth about this because since I only use the 7000 for sources, the 7000 would have to be always in the engaged mode. I didn't like this. As an incidental finding, I learned about the function of transformer for the amps. Unless you have an amp plugged in, the standby mode is not available. I finally decided to take a chance and buy the 7000 because I wanted the individual isolation transformers for my sources also. As I said my experience has been quite positive because there has been no significant increase in my electric bill. The 7000 remains in the engaged mode 24 hours a day 7 days a week. Unless the amps are on the 5000's remain in the standby mode. To anyone considering a purchase, you could potentially be adding 30 amps an hour to your bill (10 amps per device). I found this concerning. AQ is quite upfront about this possibility and this is the reason for the standby feature. Read OM carefully before purchase.
According to several articles, a local Garth Powell presentation at my dealer, and the top of page 4 of my Niagra 5000 Owner's Manual (first feature listed under Niagra 5000 Features), the 5000 does have Transient Power Correction. It does not have transformers. Regarding the rear panel Power Correction Switch setting, FWIW I run mine in Standby mode as described under the exception setting (p 12 of the 5000 OM). Here the TPC Circuit is automatically engaged when two pre-conditions are met.
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  #18  
Old 11-05-2018, 09:57 PM
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I can tell you that the 5000 does have multiple transformers. Look at the website where it shows the inside of the unit. I also checked with AQ. I thought it necessary to have a transformer as part of the TPC. When I switch my amps on and off I hear a fairly loud click and I thought it was a transfer switch/transformer being engaged and disengaged inside the 5000. You appear to be running the standby mode correctly which allows the TPC to disengage when your amp is turned off. However, unless you have an amp plugged in to a 5000 or 7000 HC outlet the standby feature is not available. I use my 7000 only for sources, so it stays in the engaged position all the time. Turning sources on and off will not engage or disengage the TPC. You must turn an amp on also. For both units to work properly, when either amps or sources are turned on the TPC must be engaged. This can under some circumstances increase your electric bill, because if you have only sources plugged in and the unit in standby, turning on a source will not switch the unit to engaged and turning sources off will not disengage the TPC. Again for the units to work properly, they must be in the engaged mode when sources or amps are on. I have not found that my electric bill increased with the 7000 in the engaged mode all the time.

As I recall (I'm not going to re-plug to confirm it), for the standby mode to work properly, at least one of your amps must be plugged in to the upper HC outlet (Bank 1) on the 5000 or 7000. Otherwise you will not hear the click which means the TPC has engaged. If the standby mode is working properly when you turn the amp on/off you will hear a distinct click a second to a few seconds later.

Last edited by Charles; 11-06-2018 at 05:44 AM. Reason: Add thought
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  #19  
Old 11-06-2018, 09:33 AM
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With all due respect I think you may be confusing the large inductors in the ground noise dissipation system with transformers. True isolation transformers are only in the 7000 and that is the primary difference between it and the 5000. If you look at the description of the 7000 it states:

Two Discrete Symmetrical AC Power Isolation Transformers (not shown)
These massive transformers provide 100% isolation from the middle four AC source outlets, from the middle four source AC outlets and the high current AC outlets. Additionally, symmetrical induced noise (common-mode) is reduced to the lowest level possible, over the widest range of frequencies possible.


Those transformers (which it notes are not shown in the pictures) are not in the 5000 and are what accounts for the 43 lbs. additional weight of the 7000.
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2018, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio bill View Post
With all due respect I think you may be confusing the large inductors in the ground noise dissipation system with transformers. True isolation transformers are only in the 7000 and that is the primary difference between it and the 5000. If you look at the description of the 7000 it states:

Two Discrete Symmetrical AC Power Isolation Transformers (not shown)
These massive transformers provide 100% isolation from the middle four AC source outlets, from the middle four source AC outlets and the high current AC outlets. Additionally, symmetrical induced noise (common-mode) is reduced to the lowest level possible, over the widest range of frequencies possible.


Those transformers (which it notes are not shown in the pictures) are not in the 5000 and are what accounts for the 43 lbs. additional weight of the 7000.
Thank you for the help. I suspect that I was given misinformation about the transformers. The rest of what I said is correct. The important thing about both units is that for them to work properly, they must be in the engaged mode when amps and sources are on and that for the standby mode to be operating properly you must hear a distinct click as described above. Again thank you. I have learned a lot about my Niagara's from this thread.
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