First foray into acoustical treatments

[Ricjor1]

Originally Posted by chessman

You have a big "small room." It might take more treatment than you expect. I have 12 ASC columns of various sizes in my 24 x 16 room. IMO, tube traps are good for a level of mid-bass absorption, but they are not cure alls.

Speaker location and seating position can have a much more profound effect because of how standing waves work. Subwoofer number and placement also has a big impact, especially in how integrated they are.

What problem are you trying to fix? Boomy bass? No bass? Muddy midrange? Ringing?

Chessman,

You asked a very good question! The problem is I don't know. I know I have a little slap echo. I know I have excess bass in my front left corner. I'm looking for suggestion from someone that has more experience than I do. I don't want to just throw money at it.

[antipop]

It'll be hard to help you without being in the room ans seeing it. REW is the next best thing.

[mac man]

Originally Posted by Ricjor1

Chessman,

You asked a very good question! The problem is I don't know. I know I have a little slap echo. I know I have excess bass in my front left corner. I'm looking for suggestion from someone that has more experience than I do. I don't want to just throw money at it.

I would just give them a call at GIK and give them all the specs of your room I'm sure they can help.

[chessman]

Originally Posted by Ricjor1

Chessman, You asked a very good question! The problem is I don't know. I know I have a little slap echo. I know I have excess bass in my front left corner. I'm looking for suggestion from someone that has more experience than I do. I don't want to just throw money at it.

Slap echo is more a first reflection problem than a bass standing wave problem. Your best bet would be absorption panels, which I am sure GIK can help you with. Bass build up in a corner, by itself, does not matter, unless your listening position is in that corner. The reason bass traps are put in corners is because that is where bass energy stacks up, which in turn can aggravate standing waves, which when resulting in a null is a problem if your listening position is in that null (weak or no bass). That said, if the bass sounds good in your listening position now, there is nothing to fix.

Here is how I would attack your issues:

1) Start with speaker placement aiming for good bass response and good stereo imaging. Closer to walls/corners will make bass louder, but less distinct. Moving away from walls helps, but too much distance can make bass sound thin. Toe-in helps imaging, but different speakers like different amounts. When the singer's voice is hanging in the air in the center between your mains, you got it. Surround sound is a different discussion.

2) Listening position should be the third point of an equilateral triangle with your mains, ideally about two thirds back from the front wall. If you have to sit close to the back wall, you will need absorption behind your head.

3) Use the "mirror trick" to find the first reflection points, i.e. have a friend move a hand mirror along a side wall while you sit in the listening position. If you can see either speaker in the mirror, you need an absorption panel there.

4) For bass we need to know if you are using subs or not.

Good hunting!

[Ricjor1]

Originally Posted by chessman

Slap echo is more a first reflection problem than a bass standing wave problem. Your best bet would be absorption panels, which I am sure GIK can help you with. Bass build up in a corner, by itself, does not matter, unless your listening position is in that corner. The reason bass traps are put in corners is because that is where bass energy stacks up, which in turn can aggravate standing waves, which when resulting in a null is a problem if your listening position is in that null (weak or no bass). That said, if the bass sounds good in your listening position now, there is nothing to fix.

Here is how I would attack your issues:

1) Start with speaker placement aiming for good bass response and good stereo imaging. Closer to walls/corners will make bass louder, but less distinct. Moving away from walls helps, but too much distance can make bass sound thin. Toe-in helps imaging, but different speakers like different amounts. When the singer's voice is hanging in the air in the center between your mains, you got it. Surround sound is a different discussion.

2) Listening position should be the third point of an equilateral triangle with your mains, ideally about two thirds back from the front wall. If you have to sit close to the back wall, you will need absorption behind your head.

3) Use the "mirror trick" to find the first reflection points, i.e. have a friend move a hand mirror along a side wall while you sit in the listening position. If you can see either speaker in the mirror, you need an absorption panel there.

4) For bass we need to know if you are using subs or not.

Good hunting!

No subs and I've already located the first reflection points.

Bass sounds good from my listening position; however there is definitely more bass in the front left corner.

[chessman]

Originally Posted by Ricjor1

No subs and I've already located the first reflection points.

Bass sounds good from my listening position; however there is definitely more bass in the front left corner.

Sounds like some absorption at the first reflection points and declare victory.

[Mikeoz]

Originally Posted by Ricjor1

No subs and I've already located the first reflection points.

Bass sounds good from my listening position; however there is definitely more bass in the front left corner.

I've had a lot of issues with bass performance in my L shaped room - the big 'square' of the L is 19' x 19'. I also have significant boom on two opposing corners (front RHS in my case).

In my view bass traps will almost always improve the sound. I would certainly target the front corners - you might be happy with what you currently hear - until you hear the results with effective trapping.

You really need to get your room measured to understand what's required. I did this and they suggested 4' wide corner traps floor to ceiling. No way I could get away with that in my living room so I went for 2' wide traps (3/4 height) - and they still made a big improvement.

I think your issue is those 16'' round traps are just too small.

[chessman]

Originally Posted by Mikeoz

I think your issue is those 16' round traps are just too small.

ASC 16" tube trap is only rated down to 55H. Most rooms seem to have problems at around 40H. But as everyone else keeps saying, we are all just guessing until we get some acoustic measurements.

[Ricjor1]

GIK recommended 6 242's to treat the side first reflection points and for the ceiling. In addition, they recommended 4 Tri-traps, stacking two in each front corner. I will have them before the end of the month. Thanks to everyone for their advice.

[Mikeoz]

Originally Posted by chessman

ASC 16" tube trap is only rated down to 55H. Most rooms seem to have problems at around 40H. But as everyone else keeps saying, we are all just guessing until we get some acoustic measurements.

My room measures boom around 30Hz and a lull around 60Hz. It's actually the 60Hz issue which is more evident and I haven't been able to fully resolve it.

The professional advice was 4' wide traps in 3 corners and 12" deep acoustic panels behind both speakers - all floor to ceiling.

Whilst I guess that would cure the problem I spend most of my time at home in that room and we don't just listen to music so it wasn't a practical solution.

However I compromised with the smaller traps and it has helped...good luck and let us know how it works out