Saga conclusion: 800D3 vs 802D3

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by RebelMan

I see how that may be but as you may know Einstein's views were not mainstream either.

I do not disagree with your position that speaker size should match/suit room size, in fact I support it but for very different reasons.

I don't deny that larger speakers have greater capacity to produce lower frequencies, that's their advantage over smaller ones. I also agree that they typically exhibit a more sensitive load and can generate a higher SPL. Where we diverge is on the equalities. If a small speaker and a large speaker of similar design and construction were driven to the same (reasonable) SPL where the union of each frequency response was flat, the results would be virtually indistinguishable. At the extreme lower end of the range this obviously would not hold true and is why a closer look at the room (construction, shape, contents) and its influences come into play.

As for RH's comments, there are assumptions to them. The kind of room, the kind of speaker the kind of system are assumed to be similar. As we all know there are variations to all of these but as a general rule of thumb he is correct. But if we follow the "mainstream" , as you put it, then we will never realize what is truly possible. The hotel rooms, in HR's example, are used as is and that can be a problem as he states. But I can tell you this with absolute certainty, a pair of 800D3 in Joey's room would sound spectacular. I know this because my room is similar in size and volume. I know this because I had a pair of 800's. I know this because I have done it! But as I stated, for him to realize the full potential he would need to look at the two big players. His first step getting there would have been to remove that carpet that kills low bass performance. Can you hear me now?

Sure, I can hear you. Fwiw, my room is about the same size as Joey's and my 800D2's do just fine with some attention to tuning too. I've also heard 800's in smaller rooms sound really good even though it looked silly.

Technically, I don't disagree with what you're saying - that two speakers presenting the same anechoic and power response should sound the same in any specific listening room, regardless of the physical size of the LF enclosure and woofer surface area. That speakers of vastly differing sizes and volumes generally don't though is the source of the 'rule of thumb', as you put it, and to which I also personally subscribe. So it seems as though we're only in disagreement over our level of willingness to agree with a general rule that's been a construct of collective experience over many years or decades.

Nonsensical it is indeed, that most audiophiles (self included), start with a less than optimum listening space and then install expensive state-of-the-art systems and do their best to make them sound as good as possible, mostly with 'trial and error' methods and inevitable routine hardware changes and upgrades.

On Joey's system specifically, I was actually of the view that 800D3's would yield an improvement - based on his previous experience with 802D3's and D2's, as well as my own with 800D3's in various environments, but I defer to his final judgement. It seems that the 800D3's need more distance from the listener than his room is able to offer, but whether this is speaker related or a consequence of speaker - room interaction is something for further investigation. Joey did also make the point though that the 800D3's produced too much bass energy when located in the same position as his 802D3's, which brings us back to that inconvenient rule of thumb.