Studio Monitors vs Home Speakers

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by George Prentice

I have had season tickets to Oregon symphony for seven or eight years, 7th row center. Listening to a well recorded classical performance, I can’t really tell the difference between live and my audio system. There are differences... the microphones at the Oregon Symphony are placed up in the air... changing the hall dynamics you can hear. Also, there is a delay from being at a concert hall... but looking at it from reasonable person’s point of view there is no material difference. My system can definitely keep up with amd match the dynamics... real crescendoed in the symphony hall overwhelm your hearings ability to differentiate different sounds... this is well reproduced.

rock is harder for a number of reasons.

Yeah... Sorry, a home system cannot pressurize the room and recreate an orchestra. No matter what we audiophiles would like to believe. And for the record, I am more than OK with that. Good enough for me.

[bart]

Serge, I remember on one occasion, I liked the SACD better than the concert.
The Rotterdam Philharmonic played Bruckner's 8th so painfully loud (constantly above 100 dB) that I couldn't fully enjoy the concert.
We bought the SACD and listened again at home, at 85-90 db, plenty loud for me, and we could appreciate Bruckner's genius a lot better.

[thughes]

I remember a chamber orchestra I heard in New Harmony, IN. My wife and I were perhaps 10 feet from the stage, and the performance was palpable. I could actually feel the air moving past me. I've never been able to experience that on any sound system.

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by George Prentice

I have had season tickets to Oregon symphony for seven or eight years, 7th row center. Listening to a well recorded classical performance, I can’t really tell the difference between live and my audio system. There are differences... the microphones at the Oregon Symphony are placed up in the air... changing the hall dynamics you can hear. Also, there is a delay from being at a concert hall... but looking at it from reasonable person’s point of view there is no material difference. My system can definitely keep up with amd match the dynamics... real crescendoed in the symphony hall overwhelm your hearings ability to differentiate different sounds... this is well reproduced.

In stereo, I really doubt it. If you had a MCH system, I could send you a live recording of your Oregon Symphony in DSD256/5.0 which would be streets ahead and, yet, I am guessing, not the equivalent of the experience in the hall.

rock is harder for a number of reasons.

And easier for other reasons.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by thughes

I remember a chamber orchestra I heard in New Harmony, IN. My wife and I were perhaps 10 feet from the stage, and the performance was palpable. I could actually feel the air moving past me. I've never been able to experience that on any sound system.

Absolutely. That kind of pressurization of a LARGE acoustical space and the width and depth of the performance is unmatched by a home system with speakers 8-12 feet apart typically.

While some systems can recreate the deep bass that would be needed on certain lowest frequencies, it also has to have a matching room.



28.25 ft That is a HALF WAVE of 20Hz.... 20Hz fundamental wave length is 56 ft...


To hear a clear 20hz tone you need a room with a length of at least 28.25 ft, which is half the wavelength of a 20hz tone. With a 13 ft room length, you should hear clear tones down to about 45 hz. You should be able to hear lower tones, but they will be distorted by room resonances caused by standing waves.

Tuba and Organ can actually reach down to 8HZ. That would have to be a room of approximately... Well, let's just say it ain't happening for most folks.

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Absolutely. That kind of pressurization of a LARGE acoustical space and the width and depth of the performance is unmatched by a home system with speakers 8-12 feet apart typically.

While some systems can recreate the deep bass that would be needed on certain lowest frequencies, it also has to have a matching room.



28.25 ft That is a HALF WAVE of 20Hz.... 20Hz fundamental wave length is 56 ft...


To hear a clear 20hz tone you need a room with a length of at least 28.25 ft, which is half the wavelength of a 20hz tone. With a 13 ft room length, you should hear clear tones down to about 45 hz. You should be able to hear lower tones, but they will be distorted by room resonances caused by standing waves.

Tuba and Organ can actually reach down to 8HZ. That would have to be a room of approximately... Well, let's just say it ain't happening for most folks.

All theoretically accurate and true in a closed room with no doorways/openings and non-permeable walls and ceiling.

In practice room length (and you should really include width too as sound waves are not one-dimensional) is not the only indicator of what you'll hear.
It's about air path for that wave to expand to its half wavelength and full wavelength. As many have rooms with openings on one or more sides and additional vertical height, there is actually more distance for that wave to expand than simply the length of the room will convey.

For example, my room has a 17' length and 14' width; for the 13' length example you mention that one can hear tones down to about 45 Hz cleanly, even extrapolating that for a 17' length, With speakers capable of reproducing the range in the first place I should not then hear 16Hz-20Hz pedal tones on the literally hundreds of pipe organ CDs of instruments all around the world with either or both metal and wood 16', 32' and even some 64' foot stops (pipes). That's not the case here as the room has openings on 2 sides so the waves have plenty of room to materialize more or less without the tons of distortion you correctly state is there when the waves impact boundaries.

My goal some day is to build a room capable of cleanly and fully reproducing the primary low note from a 32' and 64' stop on some of these organs down to 8Hz (or 4Hz if you count the harmonic)....would like to hear that one day!

Will be one damned big room though!

Good post...

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by SCAudiophile

All theoretically accurate and true in a closed room with no doorways/openings and non-permeable walls and ceiling.

In practice room length (and you should really include width too as sound waves are not one-dimensional) is not the only indicator of what you'll hear.
It's about air path for that wave to expand to its half wavelength and full wavelength. As many have rooms with openings on one or more sides and additional vertical height, there is actually more distance for that wave to expand than simply the length of the room will convey.

For example, my room has a 17' length and 14' width; for the 13' length example you mention that one can hear tones down to about 45 Hz cleanly, even extrapolating that for a 17' length, With speakers capable of reproducing the range in the first place I should not then hear 16Hz-20Hz pedal tones on the literally hundreds of pipe organ CDs of instruments all around the world with either or both metal and wood 16', 32' and even some 64' foot stops (pipes). That's not the case here as the room has openings on 2 sides so the waves have plenty of room to materialize more or less without the tons of distortion you correctly state is there when the waves impact boundaries.

My goal some day is to build a room capable of cleanly and fully reproducing the primary low note from a 32' and 64' stop on some of these organs down to 8Hz (or 4Hz if you count the harmonic)....would like to hear that one day!

Will be one damned big room though!

Good post...

Yes, one has to take the adjoining rooms/space into account if that is the layout. When I built my dedicated room in another house, I made sure to not only follow the GOLDEN RATIO dimensions but to make sure it was at least 28 ft (it worked out to be nearly 30 ft for a proper ratio with a ceiling height of over 10 feet in the basement. That was to be able to reach 20Hz clean without running into standing waves too much.

Of course I also had to deploy a WHOLE BUNCH of ASC tube traps and panels and that room was pretty much isolated and sealed. Double dry-wall with special rubber isolators in between. It was so good at keeping the sound in that only the very lowest frequencies could really escape it. I had a rather large F212 sub in there besides the full range speakers. BASS was not an issue at all for me. Pants flapping? YES. Chest and gut punching BASS? YES. That room doubled as a home theater with a projector and a screen with a 7.1 setup. First Sonus Faber then Wilson. Movies benefited from that GUT kicking bass tremendously but obviously music with lower octave energy was very fun.

All that and I will still never compare a system to a large orchestra. It is just a totally different experience overall, for me at least.

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by PHC1

Yes, one has to take the adjoining rooms/space into account if that is the layout. When I built my dedicated room in another house, I made sure to not only follow the GOLDEN RATIO dimensions but to make sure it was at least 28 ft (it worked out to be nearly 30 ft for a proper ratio with a ceiling height of over 10 feet in the basement. That was to be able to reach 20Hz clean without running into standing waves too much.

Of course I also had to deploy a WHOLE BUNCH of ASC tube traps and panels and that room was pretty much isolated and sealed. Double dry-wall with special rubber isolators in between. It was so good at keeping the sound in that only the very lowest frequencies could really escape it. I had a rather large F212 sub in there besides the full range speakers. BASS was not an issue at all for me. Pants flapping? YES. Chest and gut punching BASS? YES. That room doubled as a home theater with a projector and a screen with a 7.1 setup. First Sonus Faber then Wilson. Movies benefited from that GUT kicking bass tremendously but obviously music with lower octave energy was very fun.

All that and I will still never compare a system to a large orchestra. It is just a totally different experience overall, for me at least.

Great post!

"I will still never compare a system to a large orchestra. It is just a totally different experience overall, for me at least."

Absolutely agreed on this; there is no system that can rival the sheer emotional and audio force of a symphony orchestra in a great hall!

[BuffaloBill]

I remember that room, quite impressive.

[JemHadar]

A bit on a tangent...but very informative video by Streaky

https://youtu.be/NUQUpiEF8j0