System Synergism

[2-Channel]

I often peruse the systems on display in Audiogon and here. In doing so, I have come to recognize that very few systems are comprised of one brand name. In fact, aside from McIntosh components as a complete system, most people seem to assemble a range of components when creating their stereo and/or HT system.

Serge's recent Ayre / Lamm audition and purchase [along with his MDA1000] is an example of this trend.

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Why is this?

I would have initially thought that a single brand would create the best synergism vs a collection of varied brand name components. Same brand name components would have many shared internal parts, wire, solder, etc.

Clearly, from Serge's recent findings and system results, best synergism from same brand systems is not the case.

[gregswaim]

People tend to collect pieces that they feel sound right to them. Most of my components are McIntosh but I like British monitors for speakers and Linn TT's. I also have Revox and Stax brand components. I'm very happy with my non-McIntosh pieces as I'm sure Serge is with his new Lamm & Ayre components. It's a matter of personal taste when you're shopping at top of the food chain.

[jdandy]

All I can tell you about system synergy is, never let anyone do your thinking for you.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by 2-Channel

I often peruse the systems on display in Audiogon and here. In doing so, I have come to recognize that very few systems are comprised of one brand name. In fact, aside from McIntosh components as a complete system, most people seem to assemble a range of components when creating their stereo and/or HT system.

Serge's recent Ayre / Lamm audition and purchase [along with his MDA1000] is an example of this trend.

-------

Why is this?

I would have initially thought that a single brand would create the best synergism vs a collection of varied brand name components. Same brand name components would have many shared internal parts, wire, solder, etc.

Clearly, from Serge's recent findings and system results, best synergism from same brand systems is not the case.

I've had BAT, ARC, Krell and Mark Levinson, Rogue Audio and McIntosh as complete systems at one point or another over the past 20 years. While some where very good to great, most of those systems were eventually broken up and replaced with different components. I never found exactly what I was looking for with any one "house sound". Even with Lamm, I found great synergy between their amp and preamp but the Ayre preamp elevated the performance level (my preference anyway) beyond what the Lamm preamp could do.

Could I do all Ayre? I don't think so, I love the Ayre preamp but I love the Lamm monoblocks much more than Ayre monoblocks. So there you go, system synergy is greater with different brands. Dan is right though, don't let anyone do the thinking for you, my idea of synergy may not be your idea of synergy.

[2-Channel]

Are we not all limited to our component auditions based on what brand names are sold within access of our home ... ?

It would seem that any system assembled is a compromise unless a person can listen to every component made and every combination possible. Though completely absurd and unrealistic that anyone could do such a level of auditioning, it would seem that the best auditioning scenario can be achieved by the *professional* reviewers who can accumulate MANY components in their listening room [cabling and speaker wire included] to switch in and out.

For this reason, it seems impossible to identify a component as sounding perfect when it was only connected to a small number of companion pieces.

This was the reason I expected to see more *one brand systems* since the forth mentioned limitations to wide spread auditions would steer people to identifying a sound they enjoyed, and then buying that brand as a system [speakers aside].

Serge, I fully appreciate what you have said. And, I know of no one person who has owned more high end pieces than you. I just wonder what your system might be at this time had you kept all of your previous pieces [an impressive collection might I add] and then tried many more varied component combinations.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by 2-Channel

Are we not all limited to our component auditions based on what brand names are sold within access of our home ... ?

It would seem that any system assembled is a compromise unless a person can listen to every component made and every combination possible. Though completely absurd and unrealistic that anyone could do such a level of auditioning, it would seem that the best auditioning scenario can be achieved by the *professional* reviewers who can accumulate MANY components in their listening room [cabling and speaker wire included] to switch in and out.

For this reason, it seems impossible to identify a component as sounding perfect when it was only connected to a small number of companion pieces.

This was the reason I expected to see more *one brand systems* since the forth mentioned limitations to wide spread auditions would steer people to identifying a sound they enjoyed, and then buying that brand as a system [speakers aside].

Serge, I fully appreciate what you have said. And, I know of no one person who has owned more high end pieces than you. I just wonder what your system might be at this time had you kept all of your previous pieces [an impressive collection might I add] and then tried many more varied component combinations.

If you peruse the different systems on display at venues such as CES, you will notice that manufacturers that offer "complete system" products will tend to keep it all in the same family for obvious reasons. Those that don't will often assemble a synergistic sounding system from different manufacturers. You may also notice that most often, "the best sound" awards will go to the mixed systems.

[2-Channel]

Agreed. And, the Stereophile reviewers likewise have mixed "reference systems" in their listening rooms. I don't doubt that a mixed system is the best of all possibilities. I was just surprised to see this.

[PHC1]

And having said all that, it is completely realistic to assemble a great sounding and very enjoyable single brand system from within just about any manufacturer. Some just like to push the envelope of performance beyond what is possible in those configurations. Just like many will find the performance of a standard Porsche or Ferrari completely satisfactory and others will not be completely happy until they modify them further still.

[jdandy]

2-Channel.......I understand the point you are trying to make, but very few systems of the caliber we speak are purchased as a complete system all at once. A person may begin with an amplifier added to a lesser system, which then begs for a better preamp, etc. Most of the people I know do a tremendous amount of research, advice seeking, and auditioning as the quest for the perfect system progresses. No one is limited to just the neighborhood any longer. Information is at your finger tips. And when it is time to audition the equipment you are interested in hearing, a four or five hour drive, at the most, in any direction will generally put you in close proximity to a dealer. Ultimately, system synergy can only be determined by listening. There is no magic short cut for that.

[2-Channel]

Agreed. This is about pushing the envelope.

I am not going out on a limb when I say that we are all quite impressed with Serge's ability to squeeze that little extra from a component by mating it with another component better suited to achieve this ultimate extraction.

That said, lets assume that Ayre and/or Lamm have read your in-depth findings, and they agree with me/us that you are a very legitimate voice.

How do you think they would they respond to your findings in private?

Would Ayre and/or Lamm be wondering what they missed in their design that would have left the door open for another high end brand to take their spot in a high end system with one of their components?

Would they merely say this is completely subjective?

Would they accept this as normal since so many of the Stereophile reviewers have mixed reference systems?

Do these high end companies expect you/me/us to buy all one brand or do they anticipate mixed assemblages?