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Old 03-19-2019, 12:57 AM
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Default Moon Streamer and MQA confusion

I have Moon MiND 2 streamer transport, which in website claimed as MQA streaming capable but require MQA DAC. Does this mean
Mind2 is just pass-thru MQA stream without doing any kind of unfold ? Because for now I don’t have MQA DAC yet, but I expect
MiND2 to do the first unfold and send 88KhZ out to DAC, but as I found the DAC still locked to 44.1 or 48 when I played MQA from Tidal.

I think this MiND2 streamer just be able pass thru MQA and not
Provide any advantage to user who use non-MQA DAC. At first I
Hoped it will do at least first Core unfold.

To get FULL Decoding, I may need Moon 780D V2 instead, which is
Claimed to do FULL Decoding and has MiND2 streamer buil-in.
While 780D V2 doesn’t seem to have MQA blue light to confirm
Studio quality status which I though is a requirement to be FULL MQA Decoder. And 780D V2 comes with ESS9018S chips , is this chip MQA full decoder ?

I confused with many types of MQA
Unfolding already. And confuse even more with Moon’s MQA product.

Toga
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:04 AM
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Yes TOGA, I would like an explanation of what Simaudio are doing regarding MQA on their Moon products. My 180 streamer was upgraded to MiND2 status as I thought it would then handle MQA, but it appears to have been a waste of money...
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:25 AM
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Oh really ? You can upgrade 180 ? I had it too but sold it. I want a more proper power supply. I think MiND2 can access Tidal Hifi or Tidal Masters, hence MQA musics.
It is output as MQA Pass Thru, whereas 180 Mind just can’t do. Then you need a Full MQA DAC to decode those musics. MiND2 Streamer alone can’t do any benefit. It does not even do the first step of unfolding. By the way 180 MiND can’t even access and pass thru MQA musics.
If I need 780D V2 to do full MQA decoding.then Why on earth I need Mind 2 streamer. As this is included in 780D V2 already.
So Who will get benefit from MQA ability from Moon MiNd2 streamer ? May be for those who has MQA DAC from other company. All MQA DAC from MOON comes with Mind2 from start.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John49 View Post
Yes TOGA, I would like an explanation of what Simaudio are doing regarding MQA on their Moon products. My 180 streamer was upgraded to MiND2 status as I thought it would then handle MQA, but it appears to have been a waste of money...


I just found out. From Mind2 user manual Introduction page.
Mind 2 is just an MQA Pass Thru. It will not do any unfolding.
We need MQA DAC that can do Core decode and render.
Some DAC that cannot do first Core Decode such as Berkeley DAC
, for example, will not able to decode MQA pass thru from MiNd2.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:59 PM
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HI Toga,
Your findings were consistent with my understanding as well; most "streamers" only pass data (music files) from the server to the DAC without any D/A conversion, so if you want support for specific file classes, e.g DSD or MQA, a DAC that supports that specific conversion is required.
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
HI Toga,
Your findings were consistent with my understanding as well; most "streamers" only pass data (music files) from the server to the DAC without any D/A conversion, so if you want support for specific file classes, e.g DSD or MQA, a DAC that supports that specific conversion is required.


So when we see “MQA Support”. We must dig deep to see
Why it is called so.
Now I know more after lots of reading.
There are three types of handling MQA, so when manufacturer say MQA support, we have to know what kind of support between.
- Pass Thru, can let MQA pass thru, but dont do any benefit.
- Core decoder , which expand FLAC lower sampling rate to
Something higher sampling rate, this step is important. And can still be decoded by std. DAC that accept these high sampling rate.
- Renderer will do the final expansion again
With something that can do everything it is called as Full
Decoder.
Moon 780D V2 is claimed to be full decoder. But it doesn’t seem to have a mandatory blue/green light to confirm studio approved status. Which is kinda weird for a DAC said to be Full MQA Decoder.
While MiND2 streamer and Auralic Streamer just can pass thru MQA untouched.
Something like Berkeley Ref DAC is just a renderer, it required something before it to do the important Core Decoding.
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:05 AM
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Qobuz
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
Qobuz
Yup...
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:14 PM
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MQA Core decoder can exist in software or hardware form. Software: Roon, Tidal desktop app, Audirvana. Hardware: Lumin product line with digital output, Esoteric N-03T, Aurender with the optional MQA Core paid upgrade, and some other MQA transport products as well.

With the MQA Core decoder (in hardware or software) it allows non-MQA DAC to get better SQ (96/88.2kHz) from MQA music than no MQA decoding. MQA Core decoder is also required for the use of MQA renderer (Berkeley, iFi, Dragonfly).

Any transports that send bit perfect audio can do MQA passthrough to allow a MQA Full Decoder DAC (i.e. Core decoder + Renderer) to do its job. The Lumin MQA passthrough has one additional feature: Lumin will authenticate the MQA (show on the front panel and app) if configured to do MQA passthrough instead of (full or core) decoding by itself.

Last edited by wklie; 03-21-2019 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 03-22-2019, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wklie View Post
MQA Core decoder can exist in software or hardware form. Software: Roon, Tidal desktop app, Audirvana. Hardware: Lumin product line with digital output, Esoteric N-03T, Aurender with the optional MQA Core paid upgrade, and some other MQA transport products as well.

With the MQA Core decoder (in hardware or software) it allows non-MQA DAC to get better SQ (96/88.2kHz) from MQA music than no MQA decoding. MQA Core decoder is also required for the use of MQA renderer (Berkeley, iFi, Dragonfly).

Any transports that send bit perfect audio can do MQA passthrough to allow a MQA Full Decoder DAC (i.e. Core decoder + Renderer) to do its job. The Lumin MQA passthrough has one additional feature: Lumin will authenticate the MQA (show on the front panel and app) if configured to do MQA passthrough instead of (full or core) decoding by itself.
If hardware decoder can perform a the full MQA unfold tnrough a passthrough mode , in your experience, is there any benefits if a software decoded 88khz or 96khz MQA track compared to the same hardware decoded track presuming the max encodedn MQA sample rate of the track isnalso 88 or 96khz?

We see how many MQA implementation have been now enabled through software, usb or ethernet input cards where MQA initially when launched was marketed to be done by hardware decoding and dac or streamers with MQA capability had to be sent for certification by MQA how the dac's implementation and develpoment was to somehow be controlled or dictated my the MQA equipment certification process.
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