McIntosh MC451 Dual mono amplifier

[Charles]

I'm sure Mac will not sell a lot of these amps but they would not be for me. When you buy a pair you have committed to speakers that sound better bi-amped. In addition, you have committed in the future to purchasing speakers that have a bi-amp option. A significant majority of speakers do not come with a bi-amp option. Wilson and Magico are two prominent examples but there are many more.

Bi-amping adds expense and complexity and limits your choice of speakers should you in the future decide to change to another brand. I prefer to add subs to a full range or nearly full range system. The 901 is a specialty amp designed for very expensive speakers.

Best

Charles

__________________________________________________ _
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order:
Most recent updates: Latest is the last one posted: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport; Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic; WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection; New plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes; Thor is now off my floor; MC3500MKII mono block amps (2) and two custom granite slabs; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover; new 75-ohm multi-directional FM antenna for tuner
Amps: McIntosh MC3500MKII mono blocks (2), McIntosh MC1.25KW’s (3). All amps set on floor on custom made granite slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; custom made Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie; custom plinth of X material with Wilson Acoustic Diode feet; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from ActivXO crossover to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to ActivXO; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP881 BR player; MCT500 transport; MR87 tuner; plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.




Charles

[Formerly YB-2]

Charles - do you have one too many 'not' in your first sentence?

Too large for my needs, but would certainly consider if they were half their size (in all respects). I find the dual-range meter(s) very clever.

[McMan]

I understand the point that some speakers might not be able to run both the tube and solid-state amps at the same time. My speakers cannot run on this manner of the tube on the tweeter and midrange and solid state on the bass driver.

But, I am considering this speaker because I can run one of McIntosh's best 150-watt tube amplifiers, and if I want to change the sound, switch two cables and have an incredible 300-watt solid-state drive.

I currently switch my system from MC275 to MC452 quite often, so the product makes a lot of sense to me.

If my future speakers allow, I can run the tube and solid state together. It's a brilliant amp all around.

All I want for Christmas, though, is for them to cut the tube amp section of the 901 and offer that it is the new 300 MC2301 v2. This is my Christmas wish!

[JBT]

Originally Posted by Formerly YB-2

Charles - do you have one too many 'not' in your first sentence?

Too large for my needs, but would certainly consider if they were half their size (in all respects). I find the dual-range meter(s) very clever.

Yep

[piolaxo]

I think this amp is perfectly suited for speakers with dome mids, like Proac, ATC, PMC,
where you can "caress" the drivers, but push them with sweet tube power. That would
be a fascinating combo to be honest.

[1KW]

I like the looks , really nice. My Strads which I never plan to sell, however can’t be bi-amped, neither can my SF Guarneri mementos oh well.

[Charles]

You folks seem to minimize the fact that with this amp you must restrict your system to speakers that are designed for bi-amping. Some speakers offer the option of bi-amping but are not really designed for it. The crossover is an essential element of any speaker. For example, the crossover in my XVX weighs 45 lbs. and is encased in carbon fiber. Magico crossovers are exquisitely made, very expensive. Many respected high end speaker manufacturers believe a well designed passive crossover inherently superior to an electronic crossover.

I believe that some manufacturers provide bi-amping without spending the necessary money. If you already own a speaker that is specifically designed to sound its best with bi-amping, the MC451 may be your best option, that is, if you have no plans in the future to change speakers. It is rare that a speaker will have no conventional passive option because the majority of high end systems are not bi-amped.

If I were going this route, I would consult Ivan concerning my bi or tri amping and my choice of speakers. I wonder what his thoughts would be on these amps? The 901 is a specialty product. The 451 is aimed at a broader market but still quite expensive in Mac terms.

I would challenge the assumption that Mac tube bass is inferior to Mac SS bass. I prefer the bass produced by my 3500's to my 1.25KW's, both amps run off the 4-ohm tap. There is no question that my 3500's have a fuller richer bass with greater pace and drive. This is combined with greater resolution. I don't know about a 2301 or a 1502. However, my 3500's are the best amps that I have heard.

Best

Charles

__________________________________________________ _
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order:
Most recent updates: Latest is the last one posted: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport; Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic; WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection; New plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes; Thor is now off my floor; MC3500MKII mono block amps (2) and two custom granite slabs; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover; new 75-ohm multi-directional FM antenna for tuner
Amps: McIntosh MC3500MKII mono blocks (2), McIntosh MC1.25KW’s (3). All amps set on floor on custom made granite slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; custom made Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie; custom plinth of X material with Wilson Acoustic Diode feet; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from ActivXO crossover to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to ActivXO; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP881 BR player; MCT500 transport; MR87 tuner; plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.

[McMan]

It is a brilliant product for McIntosh.

Get a C12000 & MC451, and you can have the pleasure of listening to a high-end tube system or a high-end solid-state system. Also, if your speakers are capable, you can run both simultaneously.

All you have to do is switch cables when looking for a change in sound.

I love McTube, and I enjoy McSolid State. Simply the best of both worlds. Mc [emoji289]

[Charles]

Originally Posted by McMan

It is a brilliant product for McIntosh.

Get a C12000 & MC451, and you can have the pleasure of listening to a high-end tube system or a high-end solid-state system. Also, if your speakers are capable, you can run both simultaneously.

All you have to do is switch cables when looking for a change in sound.

I love McTube, and I enjoy McSolid State. Simply the best of both worlds. Mc [emoji289]

It's obvious that Mac did their marketing research, before designing the 451. If you want, you can also listen to one speaker on tube and the other on SS

Best

Charles

[PeterMusic]

I'm with Charles--I'm sure they've done their market research, but I think the focus on bi-amping is introducing more complexity than it is worth. I'd stick with tubes on the mains save the second amp for a sub