WW Silver Eclipse speaker cable vs Shunyata Cobra Z-TRON speaker cable?

[crwilli]

Originally Posted by Glisse

A couple of points re. above comments:

• AQ Diamond USB uses pure silver conductors, not silver clad copper
• The difference in conductivity between silver and copper, which is minor, affects resistance rather than signal "speed". Free electrons that are present in conducting material do not flow in AC, they oscillate and excite those next to them. This generates an electromagnetic wave, which is actually the signal. The speed of the electromagnetic wave in a vacuum is the speed of light. It is the dielectric (insulation) around the wire that determines the signal speed, not the conductor. That is because the signal is actually carried beyond the confines of the wire, which may be an uncomfortable concept for some.
• The primary purpose for coating copper with silver is that both materials aggressively oxidise, but silver oxide has only slightly reduced conductivity, whilst copper oxide has substantially reduced conductivity
• Skin effect, which only applies to AC, is determined by the resistance of the conductor, magnetic permeability, and the frequency of the signal. Basically, the better the conductor, the thinner the skin depth. The higher the frequency, the thinner the skin depth. A high frequency digital transmission in silver, or copper, is only going to be carrying current in a very thin layer.

But with respect to the specific discussion on USB cables, they carry DC. There is no skin effect

Wow - a little science brought into a discussion of cables. How refreshing! I can get my head around how the electrons \ waves work much more easily than what effect it all has the sound.

[PlanarSpeakerFan]

Originally Posted by Glisse

A couple of points re. above comments:

• AQ Diamond USB uses pure silver conductors, not silver clad copper
• The difference in conductivity between silver and copper, which is minor, affects resistance rather than signal "speed". Free electrons that are present in conducting material do not flow in AC, they oscillate and excite those next to them. This generates an electromagnetic wave, which is actually the signal. The speed of the electromagnetic wave in a vacuum is the speed of light. It is the dielectric (insulation) around the wire that determines the signal speed, not the conductor. That is because the signal is actually carried beyond the confines of the wire, which may be an uncomfortable concept for some.
• The primary purpose for coating copper with silver is that both materials aggressively oxidise, but silver oxide has only slightly reduced conductivity, whilst copper oxide has substantially reduced conductivity
• Skin effect, which only applies to AC, is determined by the resistance of the conductor, magnetic permeability, and the frequency of the signal. Basically, the better the conductor, the thinner the skin depth. The higher the frequency, the thinner the skin depth. A high frequency digital transmission in silver, or copper, is only going to be carrying current in a very thin layer.

But with respect to the specific discussion on USB cables, they carry DC. There is no skin effect

Glisse,

Thanks so much for your knowledgeable response to my question. Greatly appreciated.

Ken

[G8YU]

Thanks for clearing things up with knowledgeable information, Glisse.
I'd actually been told by a cable manufacturer that they use silver clad copper for their USB because the signal travels near the outer circumference. I took this as fact without further investigation, oops.

[CGabriel]

Originally Posted by G8YU

Thanks for clearing things up with knowledgeable information, Glisse. I'd actually been told by a cable manufacturer that they use silver clad copper for their USB because the signal travels near the outer circumference. I took this as fact without further investigation, oops.

Just a minor point on USB. USB 2.0 which is what most devices use today, especially audio related components, has four wires. The first pair carries DC 5.0v as Glisse said. The second pair are the signal wires which carries the digital signal. USB can operate over a very wide range of transmission rates. This rate is negotiated by two connected devices at the beginning of a transmission. The data is packetized (similar in concept to Ethernet) and uses a differential, non-return to zero signaling code. The maximum signal rate for USB 2.0 is 480 M/bit/s. It is difficult to draw a corresponding frequency because the signaling scheme makes the frequency variable during transmission and there is protocol overhead in transmission to figure in. But it is clear that the frequency rate is very high. And at that rate of transmission skin effect will definitely come into play. As an aside, this is why it is not beneficial to use larger gauge wires when the signal is a high speed digital signal. So buying a digital cable based upon a wire gauge spec is completely irrelevant.

Just one other point on electromagnetic transmission over wire: While it is true that EM waves travel at near light speeds there is current drift for an alternating signal. However, the current does not travel at the same rate as the EM wave. As a matter of fact the current moves quite slowly, usually in millimeters per second as opposed to nearly 300K M/sec.

[crwilli]

Originally Posted by CGabriel

Just a minor point on USB. USB 2.0 which is what most devices use today, especially audio related components, has four wires. The first pair carries DC 5.0v as Glisse said. The second pair are the signal wires which carries the digital signal. USB can operate over a very wide range of transmission rates. This rate is negotiated by two connected devices at the beginning of a transmission. The data is packetized (similar in concept to Ethernet) and uses a differential, non-return to zero signaling code. The maximum signal rate for USB 2.0 is 480 M/bit/s. It is difficult to draw a corresponding frequency because the signaling scheme makes the frequency variable during transmission and there is protocol overhead in transmission to figure in. But it is clear that the frequency rate is very high. And at that rate of transmission skin effect will definitely come into play. As an aside, this is why it is not beneficial to use larger gauge wires when the signal is a high speed digital signal. So buying a digital cable based upon a wire gauge spec is completely irrelevant. Just one other point on electromagnetic transmission over wire: While it is true that EM waves travel at near light speeds there is current drift for an alternating signal. However, the current does not travel at the same rate as the EM wave. As a matter of fact the current moves quite slowly, usually in millimeters per second as opposed to nearly 3K M/sec.

Thank you, Even more science! Bring it on!

[G8YU]

Originally Posted by CGabriel

Just a minor point on USB. USB 2.0 which is what most devices use today, especially audio related components, has four wires. The first pair carries DC 5.0v as Glisse said. The second pair are the signal wires which carries the digital signal. USB can operate over a very wide range of transmission rates. This rate is negotiated by two connected devices at the beginning of a transmission. The data is packetized (similar in concept to Ethernet) and uses a differential, non-return to zero signaling code. The maximum signal rate for USB 2.0 is 480 M/bit/s. It is difficult to draw a corresponding frequency because the signaling scheme makes the frequency variable during transmission and there is protocol overhead in transmission to figure in. But it is clear that the frequency rate is very high. And at that rate of transmission skin effect will definitely come into play. As an aside, this is why it is not beneficial to use larger gauge wires when the signal is a high speed digital signal. So buying a digital cable based upon a wire gauge spec is completely irrelevant.

Just one other point on electromagnetic transmission over wire: While it is true that EM waves travel at near light speeds there is current drift for an alternating signal. However, the current does not travel at the same rate as the EM wave. As a matter of fact the current moves quite slowly, usually in millimeters per second as opposed to nearly 300K M/sec.

Wow, that required a couple read throughs for comprehension. It's odd that I didn't enjoy learning things until I was out of school.