MC402 vs MC501 VS MC601's

[Grasshopper]

OK McFans. I am currently running a pair of B&W Signature 800's driven by a MC402 (fed by a Mac Mini, into a soon to arrive D100 {purchased here on the forum thanks to @mtroo} with a C2300 preamp).

I've never come close to hitting the power guard, I can rock my 800's to levels that make my ears bleed (which doesn't happen often). I've never felt like the MC402 didn't have adequate power.

With the 1000 watt rated speakers, my only itch to upgrade is to see if there is MORE dynamics, and more bass (which I have likely solved with adding a pair of JL F113's).

I've read the older B&W 800's are power hungry---I don't really know any different.

So, all things being equal, what would I expect as a seat of my pants difference moving from an MC402, to say entry level monoblocks like the 501s, or even the 601s which seems to be the sweet spot.

I'm not looking to burn cash for subtle changes at this point. Another upgrade I am considering is an MEN220 which I have heard in my system (and it was better than subtle).

Thoughts???

[damacman]

Hmmm ... Mono blocks typically provide increased separation as well as better imaging, broader and deeper soundstage, etc. when compared to a single stereo amplifier. Over the years, I've enjoyed MC60s, mono MC240s, mono MC2300s, and currently mono MC2600s all with very similar results.

If you're not lighting the PG lamps, and often, you'll see no gain from the additional power though. That being said, more current available per channel could definitely have an audible effect on how well a given speaker can be driven. Refer to the OMs of each amplifier for that specification.

You may have not considered comparing the S/N of each of the amps but gains could definitely be realized there.

[McMan]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

With the 1000 watt rated speakers, my only itch to upgrade is to see if there is MORE dynamics, and more bass (which I have likely solved with adding a pair of JL F113's).

If you are interested in more dynamics, then you might want to consider a MC452 or MC601. My understanding is that the newer generation amps are more dynamic vs. the older generation. The MC402 & MC501 are beautiful amplifers but voiced differently. Have a listen, look into a home demo if that's possible. I love my MC452 it completely transformed my 804s.

[PMCH]

When I had B&W 803ds, I first had them connected to 1 MC352, then 2MC352's in mono and biamped and finally to the MC601s I currently have. The 803s kept sounding better and better as I kept giving them more and more power. I thought it was a significant improvement. I also had them connected to a C2300.

[V7Sport73]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

OK McFans. I am currently running a pair of B&W Signature 800's driven by a MC402 (fed by a Mac Mini, into a soon to arrive D100 {purchased here on the forum thanks to @mtroo} with a C2300 preamp).

I've never come close to hitting the power guard, I can rock my 800's to levels that make my ears bleed (which doesn't happen often). I've never felt like the MC402 didn't have adequate power.

With the 1000 watt rated speakers, my only itch to upgrade is to see if there is MORE dynamics, and more bass (which I have likely solved with adding a pair of JL F113's).

I've read the older B&W 800's are power hungry---I don't really know any different.

So, all things being equal, what would I expect as a seat of my pants difference moving from an MC402, to say entry level monoblocks like the 501s, or even the 601s which seems to be the sweet spot.

I'm not looking to burn cash for subtle changes at this point. Another upgrade I am considering is an MEN220 which I have heard in my system (and it was better than subtle).

Thoughts???

I've had the B&W 802D. They are good speakers. I found that using a sub to help round out the sound and worked well. I'm not sure if the B&W 800 needs a little help in the lower frequencies. Perhaps the newer models addressed this. I have since sold them and returned to my Wilson Maxx 2.

[Grasshopper]

Thanks to all of the comments so far.

The consensus seems to lean towards "better amps = better sound". I would expect that as I move up the McChain, the dynamics, soundstage, SNR would all improve.

I'm curious for those with direct experience if they could shed a little more light on just how much "better" they'd expect the sound.

For example:

Would moving from the MC402 to the MC501 produce a 10% improvement in overall presentation, where the 601's would be a 30% improvement (or other numbers that one can estimate)?

I know it can be hard to quantify something this subjective, but my hope is someone out there in AA-land may have gone through this and can put some % improvement numbers out there from their experience.

We are probably all afflicted by the pursuit of "better". I'm just curious how much better certain upgrades are expected to make (and I'm not situated where I can audition amps very easily).

I'm definitely not looking to spend thousands to get a 3% improvement, if that makes sense.

[jdandy]

Jason......You may find some useful information in my reviews here:

McIntosh MC452 Review

McIntosh MC601 Review

[Grasshopper]

Thank you Dan!!!

Originally Posted by jdandy

Jason......You may find some useful information in my reviews here:



McIntosh MC452 Review



McIntosh MC601 Review

[damacman]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Thanks to all of the comments so far.

The consensus seems to lean towards "better amps = better sound". I would expect that as I move up the McChain, the dynamics, soundstage, SNR would all improve.

I'm curious for those with direct experience if they could shed a little more light on just how much "better" they'd expect the sound.

For example:

Would moving from the MC402 to the MC501 produce a 10% improvement in overall presentation, where the 601's would be a 30% improvement (or other numbers that one can estimate)?

I know it can be hard to quantify something this subjective, but my hope is someone out there in AA-land may have gone through this and can put some % improvement numbers out there from their experience.

We are probably all afflicted by the pursuit of "better". I'm just curious how much better certain upgrades are expected to make (and I'm not situated where I can audition amps very easily).

I'm definitely not looking to spend thousands to get a 3% improvement, if that makes sense.

In a way, this is kind of like owning a 400hp vehicle that you don't drive to its limits and wondering if the new model, with 500hp, suits you better. It certainly may, but the things that would be quantitative gains may be things more like decreased cabin noise, improved aerodynamics, and of course that new car smell.

So you've got upgrade-itis. That's certainly OK. Just be realistic with your expectations and you'll spend your money wisely. FWIW, 427 has both MC501s and a MC402 if you'd like to PM him to get him involved.

[IM3CPO]

I have a 402, 452, 601's and used to own 501's. Others' opinions on the difference between the sound of the 402 and 501 is accurate; to me the best way to describe it is the sound is much fuller and more depth. The other thing to keep in mind is the older MC amps (like the 402 and 501) sound very different from the newer style 452 and 601's. Personally, I think the sound of both but the 452/601's are brighter and less analytical compared to the 402 and 501. I am not a huge fan of the Diamond tweeter on B&W, but I have not listened to them with MC amps.

In summary, if you want a noticeable step up in sound and presence, the 601's are the way to go for sure. I have also added stillpoints to my 402 as well as speakers and pre-amp and that also made a dramatic improvement to the sound, so if you decide to keep what you have but want to improve the sound, that may be the way to go. Plus, you can always reuse the stillpoints no matter the system so they are a good investment.