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Turntables & Tonearms Where Analog still Rules

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  #91  
Old 05-10-2020, 05:22 PM
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blacsno blacsno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonmb View Post
I don’t believe, with today’s technology, that either format is inherently better - a personal opinion of course, not a statement of fact - but I think the idea that analog is better because our ears are analog is what’s called an association fallacy: because A is true and B is true, A must equal B - or something like that.

Here’s another side of the same coin: digital is nothing more than analog data with discrete intervals - a model. Our ears are analog, but the inner ear converts sound to electrical impulses - analog data with discrete intervals - and sends them to the brain for interpretation, so maybe the whole hearing process is analog to digital. But that’s no more relevant than the argument that our ears are analog.

De gustibus non est disputandum - there’s no arguing with taste, or as my father used to translate it, “you can’t argue with Gus.”


That was a very nice response! Well DONE!! I totally agree with you on your points. My thoughts are based on this premise...... I've been converting my 8k+ LP collection to digital going on 12 years. Hey... It could my setup at home!? But the LP version always sounds just i tiny bit better than the digital copy. So if I sound jaded its because I'm comparing the source LP versus the digital copy. I'll say never say I made a clone!! I even dabbled in creating LP's to DSD files process. That venture got me close to making a clone. Yet with insane file sizes and no editing software that I could afford. In the end the DSD file was still just a copy! Yes.... I understand the music today can be created entirely digital without the slings and arrows of analog. But if one wasn't present at the time of mastering how could the end user know it was better/equal than the analog performance?

So that is my truth from a certain point of view!!
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Last edited by blacsno; 05-10-2020 at 05:27 PM. Reason: forgot to add the quote
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  #92  
Old 05-10-2020, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
For many years I thought "No".

As an aside, it is actually a red herring question as we don't listen directly to digital, ever, anyway. We are listening to the result of whatever D->A is in the chain and many other things!

After many years and advances in technology, cables, etc...my answer is now...

YES with a top line CD, SACD, XRCD playback system, transport, dac, masterclock, matching cables, powercord, etc...

Before y'all jump on this,...

Remember that we all tried the same types of things to get great vinyl playback...then it is cartridges, MM or MC, tonearm, lead wires, plinths, motors, drive type, power supplies, suspension/isolation, phono preamp, synergy the chain of play, gain matching, cables, power cords, vinyl, weight, color, 78, 33, 45, which is better. etc....and so on and so forth. 5 TTs under my belt in years past I can tell you its pretty much "same @#$& different playback medium..." IMHO. [emoji2]

Many will disagree I am sure.

*If vinyl was always better, would not matter what kind of vinyl you bought and how you played it back. We know that is far from ture.

I love vinyl playback, RTR too, and tubes while we are at it...have heard great systems of all types,..what matters most is quality of media, mastering chain and level of execution of the system and ultimately that you Enjoy The Music!!!

Again,...only my opinion.

The statement that our ears take in analog info is absolutely but I believe or brain is not pure analog as it processes electrical impusles received from our hearing system and interprets the sound. Is thr brain digital, no,...is it pure analog, definitely no as well.

And lastly...

“There*is a principle which is a*bar against all*information, which is proof*against all*arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
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  #93  
Old 05-10-2020, 05:39 PM
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What sounds best is unobtainable right now...
It's live music.

(Acoustic I mean).
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  #94  
Old 05-10-2020, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bart View Post
What sounds best is unobtainable right now...

It's live music.



(Acoustic I mean).

Yes, I just told my wife yesterday that the thing I miss most right now, other than our grandkids, is going to shows.
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  #95  
Old 05-10-2020, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McMusicman View Post
That is gold!
Personally I feel that it depends on the music and pressing/format.
For example recent Florence and the Machine as well as Tame Impala vinyl is lifeless,flat sounding dreck.Prefer the CD and save considerable money.
Playing an original Free album -the Fire and Water LP is a revelation compared to the flat sounding CD.
I can now listen to either format for some hours without fatigue which is something I couldn’t do several years ago.
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  #96  
Old 09-10-2020, 07:36 PM
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George Prentice George Prentice is offline
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I have struggled with my analog and digital ends for decades. Typically after some change to my system I realize I am only listening to the analog side. So I will upgrade something on the digital side... the last being adding the Sim 820s dedicated power supply to my DAC... the power supply being equal to the cost of the DAC ~$8K. This finally brought my digital end close enough to the analog side that I don’t ignore the digital end. They are now both enjoyable, although if I really want to listen to a high-end album I go for vinyl. Of course a crappy recording on vinyl can sound bad.

From my point of view, one used to have to spend many times the amount of money to get close to analog. Maybe at the high end you still do. But at my level, they are much closer. Vinyl still wins at roughly the same cost... but it isn’t jaw dropping any more.
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  #97  
Old 09-11-2020, 08:18 AM
AudioGremlin AudioGremlin is offline
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A diplomatic answer Sir that I'll also go with. Now to retire with happiness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macuser View Post
We all hear differently but to my ears my digital competes and fares quite well when compared to my vinyl.
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  #98  
Old 09-11-2020, 01:56 PM
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My digital easily beats my turntable.
I have to admit my phonograph is exactly 100 years old now.
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AV: Hegel C-53, Marantz AV8802A, Oppo BDP-203EU, Pioneer Kuro 60", Vivid Audio C1 & V1w's, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse, SE & E
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  #99  
Old 03-14-2021, 08:49 PM
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Immediately after my post above I began an upgrade cycle. Really glad I did. My VPI Aries / Frog was at the 25 year mark. I bought the combo to complement the solid state / ribbon speakers I had at the time. So it was heavy on the bass and a bit soft on top. For some reason... perhaps that my digital end is finally really satisfying I chose to change courses away from massive black and stainless stuff and go with small and elegant, a Linn SP12. The history associated with the table also felt really good to me... and red wood fits with my speakers and racks. I guess I could have done some statement assault, but didn’t. What a wonderful sounding deck, strikes me as detailed, balanced and musical. Very nice combination. Also, incredibly easy to use... it is a piece of cake to pick up the tonearm and move it exactly where I want to. After the difficulty with the VPI unipivot, it is a real pleasure. I can rest my pinky on the frame and move with my forefinger. I must be getting old, to enjoy such a simple pleasure so much. Clearly both ends now sound wonderful to me. The analog end has more detail... but both are really satisfying. When I can stop myself from exclusively listening to the turntable, it will be interesting figuring out the differences. My analog end is about $10K less than my digital end... so it strikes me that the cost edge still goes to analog.
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Last edited by George Prentice; 03-14-2021 at 09:05 PM.
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  #100  
Old 03-14-2021, 09:55 PM
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Congrats. Linn makes a great table. Let’s hope you have this one 25 years.
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