Ayre QX-5 Twenty First Listen

[will]

UK's Hi-Fi News now has a review of the QX-5.

[solecky]

Is there a link to the article?

[will]

Sorry, it doesn't seem to be online yet. It is in their December 2017 issue. I guess Ayre will post it on their site, hopefully soon.

[BillK]

Just a quick update:

I've just had a few days living with my dealer's latest copy of the QX-5 Twenty, which while not the same unit I auditioned almost two years ago now, it does have several hundred hours' use on it.

What I found is… one issue was exactly what it was then and one is not.

I had complained of an HF sizzle and that "the best way to explain this is that the QX-5 Twenty gave vocalists who normally have no lisp or other accentuation of "S" sounds a bit of one."

That effect is totally ameliorated with long-term break-in, and I was quite pleased to hear that.

Unfortunately, the other issue I described, a general reduction in soundstage width, appears to be a natural part of the unit along with the loss of a bit of sense of space.

A perfect example is the stereo version of the Beach Boys' God Only Knows, sourced from the red book CD layer of the Analogue Productions SACD of Pet Sounds (Analogue Productions CAPP 067 SA.)

At the beginning of the track there are sleigh bells that are being shaken.

Through the QX-5 Twenty, you can actually hear the ball that rolls around inside the sleigh bells to make them ring. It's truly incredible, and is something I do not hear as readily on my reference, my Wadia S7i.

However… through the Wadia there is a palpable sense of space heard in the sleigh bells, a bit of resonance that makes them sound as if they are being played in an actual space. Through the QX-5 Twenty, they sound more like they are digital sleigh bells, generated in a plug-in and just "punched in." The sense of space surrounding them is totally missing.

As I said in another review, another effect I hear on several tracks is that instruments seem confined to the width of the speakers through the QX-5 Twenty. Through the Wadia, the space expands and several instruments appear to originate from beyond the left and right edges of my speakers.

On another track, what I heard was that the vocalist was perfectly centered, perfectly rendered and accurate, never bright, but once again "space" seemed missing, as if they were recorded in a modern sound booth and simply punched into place in the recording rather than recorded within an actual studio space. That would be exactly right for most modern recordings, but this was Frank Sinatra singing Fly Me to the Moon (In Other Words) sourced from the huge Reprise The Complete Reprise Studio Recordings collection (Reprise 47045-2, disc 8 of 20) on which Frank was recorded in a studio space.

Now, the biggest caveat is, like last time, I only have red book CDs and digital files in 16/44.1 and 16/48 formats, with only a handful of highres files in 24/96 or 24/192, my only interface from my computer to the Wadia or QX-5 Twenty is USB, and the only interface from another digital source I have is 16/48 S/PDIF via coax. I heard that same soundstage width effect on tracks played via all those sources using those connection methods.

Several reviews have mentioned that the QX-5 Twenty sounds better via its Ethernet port than via USB, but I don't own any streaming hardware or NAS devices so I can't audition the Ayre that way.

So in summary, for Redbook and 16/44.1 and 16/48 material delivered via USB or S/PDIF, the QX-5 Twenty still falls short (to me) as compared to my Wadia S7i.

Now the effects I am hearing from my Wadia may well be completely artificial; the sound reproduced from the QX-5 Twenty may in fact be more accurate and I may have just come to prefer an artificial Wadia "bloom" if one is being generated, much the way some prefer some tube gear that generates a "bloom" to other tube gear or solid state for the same reason.

I just wanted to relay that two years later, one of the effects I heard was apparently completely eliminated by component burn-in, but one appears to simply be a characteristic of the unit, whether good or bad.

That having been said, I would certainly purchase one and rave about its performance… if I didn't have the Wadia S7i handy against which to make an immediate comparison and/or if streaming made up a majority of my listening.

But I do have an S7i and don't stream.

Obligatory controversial statement: I also don't have any MQA tracks, which the Wadia will never decode in any way, where if it hasn't already been made available I understand the QX-5 Twenty will decode MQA soon.

The Wadia obviously also isn't Roon compliant.

[dbphd]

I do use ethernet and Roon with my QX-5 Twenty. The best sound seems to be with DSD files downloaded from Acoustic Sounds, but there is a drop-out problem with DSD. The QX-5 connects to a KX-5 Twenty preamp and VX-5 Twenty amp, all connections balanced, of course. I've been impressed with the sound.

[Firewire]

I purchased a new QX-5 just before the price increase and received recently. It was breaking in and opening up nicely after the 200 hour mark and easily beat my previous digital source, the Ayre C-5xe universal player. Then on the 11th day it stopped playing in the middle of a song. I cycled power and a fault appeared on the display "Fault FPGA". Unfortunately, I was not able to solve this issue and contacted Ayre support. Ayre indicated the issue was a communication problem between two integrated circuits and the unit would have to be returned to Ayre for repair or replacement if one was available. Another thing I noticed was it did not have a "Twenty" label on the front panel? I asked about this and they indicated it should have had the "Twenty" label. I hear of very few issues with the QX-5, so I may just have bad luck.

[Masterlu]

Firewire... Welcome to AA!

[BillK]

Originally Posted by Firewire

I cycled power and a fault appeared on the display "Fault FPGA". Unfortunately, I was not able to solve this issue and contacted Ayre support. Ayre indicated the issue was a communication problem between two integrated circuits and the unit would have to be returned to Ayre for repair or replacement if one was available. Another thing I noticed was it did not have a "Twenty" label on the front panel? I asked about this and they indicated it should have had the "Twenty" label. I hear of very few issues with the QX-5, so I may just have bad luck.

Yes, I haven't heard of many QC issues with the QX-5 either, so it may simply be the normal electronics bell curve of failures being more likely at the beginning and end of a component's life.

The "Twenty" badge is a confusing issue; certainly ones I've borrowed previously have had it, as did the one I just re-auditioned, and past photos show it:




Ayre indicates it should be there, yet the image prominently featured on their web site's product page for the QX-5 does not have one:

[Firewire]

Thanks Masterlu.

Bill, I found the same confusion comparing older pictures of the QX-5 on the internet to more recent photo's posted on the Ayre Facebook page and website. My only concern is, if I was to sell the unit, a potential buyer may believe this unit is not the latest version. They were supposed to mail me the label, however I have returned the unit to my dealer. Unfortunately the failure couldn't have occurred at a worse time with Ayre in the middle of a move to the new facility.

Regarding sound quality, the QX-5 is the best sounding digital source I have experienced so far. I have all Ayre gear.

Alan

[ctsooner]

Bill, I will try to address your concern on stage size etc.... I hope not to ruffle any feathers. AS most know, I've been an Ayre mark since I heard their great gear at two of my top dealers.

I've owned the AX7, 7e, AX5, AX5/20, QX5/20 and have had the phono stage in as well as the HF power conditioner at times. I have so many friends using Ayre gear as I help many pair down audio decisions for fun. I'm even getting many in the portable IEM community to take notice of the Codex for the desktop solution over the Chord Hugo 2, which has entrenched itself in that community. Ayre can't be everything to everyone. No one can.

I'm very active in digital, only because of the MS. I can't get up and change records anymore, so my Basis TT system with home made ultrasonic cleaner is gonzo!!!! Jim Davis is enjoying the heck out of it though. ....he's a good friend I know from the Vandersteen side of my audio passion right now. Sorry to digress

I'll focus on DAC's and servers. Servers are so very important. If you don't want to stream, you need a digital course adn servers are paramount. I own Steve Nugents (Empirical Audio) (Masterlu, please have me delete if this bothers anyone) former personal server. It's a heavily rebuilt Mac mini with a Paul Hynes LPS. Hand made silver connection cables etc... It's a sick sick unit. I also love the Aurender servers. Many like Lumin as well as the cast of others. Most of the servers have the same limitations though. Same thing with DAC's. it's the various type of jitter. I have a new server being built and yes, I'm having a brand new desgin of a quad DAC being built in to see if it will be world class as that's what I'm striving for now. The server being built to my ears, is the best I've heard. They have figured out a way to defrag the memory to cut jitter big time. They do many other jitter reducing steps to try adn eliminate the timing errors. That's what robs music of it's natural and flowing feel that analog gives you (if it's good analog ).

Without eliminating those things, the soundstage will never open up like it should and how it was probably recorded. Many factors, as we know, play into all of this.

Everyone has to compromise during design. I personally need accurate tone when listening or I don't love what I hear. I've hear or had in the house, the DCS stack, newest MBL stack, Trinity, LH Davinci mk2, TotalDac (finally), Brinkman as well as sooo many other's at all price ranges. They all have their sound signatures.

The QX5 does have a smaller soundstage than my last DAC, the Empirical Audio ODSE/SE. It's not even close, but I also feel the Ayre has more meat on the mid bones. Both are great adn I'd own them happily. What Ayre gives you is control. You have to pay for that as each connection is expensive and the headphone amp is also a big upgrade over the Codex and not cheap. We pay for it all. Teh built in streaming isn't cheap either and it sounds very good compared to my streaming using my server that Steve built. I don't love the interface, but I care more about the SQ, while others MUST have Roon. We all make choices that we can still love.

Yes, you can get a DAC that has a much larger stage or one that seems to give better bass or or that is more musical or one that has...... You will give up a lot of micro and macro detail, which to me, is where emotions lie. Teh Ayre is a very detailed DAC without giving up the music and great tone. Pace, timing and rhythm are also important and some of the DAC's costing much more will give you better, but for under 10k the QX5 is outstanding and still beats (to my ear) most of the others under 10k that I've heard (many).

Guys, sorry for the long rant and all. Going though a bit of an MS stretch with cognitive issues that are my norm, lol. Bear with me and feel free to ask questions for clarification. I hope I haven't down played anyone's equipment as I was just trying to say that everyone presents a bit differently and that you need to chose which compromises you can and will deal with. Pete