This is just wrong .......

[Mikado463]

As a tax payer in the Commonwealth of Pa this shouldn't be ............

https://www.wtae.com/article/foreign...vania/28322186

[crwilli]

Don’t blame Shell.

Blame years of poor US trade policy and uncontrolled, predatory capitalism that allowed China to build incredible production capacity and then dump steel around the world.

There used to be, may still be, enough steel production capacity in China to supply the world’s demand for most grades. A result of a central government pressuring each municipality to ‘make money and grow their tax revenues’.

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by crwilli

Don’t blame Shell.

Blame years of poor US trade policy and uncontrolled, predatory capitalism that allowed China to build incredible production capacity and then dump steel around the world.

There used to be, may still be, enough steel production capacity in China to supply the world’s demand for most grades. A result of a central government pressuring each municipality to ‘make money and grow their tax revenues’.

+1 on this....I grew up the son of a non-union metallurgist in the specialty stainless steel industry south of Buffalo NY. You can also blame aging plants and ridiculous levels of union regulation of wages (1979: $17 per hour for the guy who swept the floors, $25 per hour for the guys who checked light fixtures and changed bulbs, sat on their ass 4 to 5 hours paid per day between assignments but with union protection)...just 2 examples of how unions helped kill the competitive nature of steel production in the US.....all IMHO of course

[crwilli]

Originally Posted by SCAudiophile

+1 on this....I grew up the son of a non-union metallurgist in the specialty stainless steel industry south of Buffalo NY. You can also blame aging plants and ridiculous levels of union regulation of wages (1979: $17 per hour for the guy who swept the floors, $25 per hour for the guys who checked light fixtures and changed bulbs, sat on their ass 4 to 5 hours paid per day between assignments but with union protection)...just 2 examples of how unions helped kill the competitive nature of steel production in the US.....all IMHO of course

Yes, with hindsight it is all of the above. I visited a few GM plants in the midWest in the late 80’s and let me just say that there were many people doing nothing while others were working their butts off. Absolutely no resource or ‘job sharing’ because of Union rules.

No doubt Unions played a positive role at times in our history but in total their role may have been mixed. Definitely did not help the US auto makers as the Japanese and European manufacturers came to the US.

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by crwilli

Yes, with hindsight it is all of the above. I visited a few GM plants in the midWest in the late 80’s and let me just say that there were many people doing nothing while others were working their butts off. Absolutely no resource or ‘job sharing’ because of Union rules.

No doubt Unions played a positive role at times in our history but in total their role may have been mixed. Definitely did not help the US auto makers as the Japanese and European manufacturers came to the US.

Ageed...time was (and for many years) the workers needed the protection and support to be treated fairly, then like anything else in life...

"Power*tends to corrupt, and absolute*power corrupts*absolutely...." Lord Acton

To be fair, there ARE good unions still out there that have stuck to core principles and not given in to abuse of power and strayed.

[Mikado463]

I hear ya Craig but I would like to see tax credits bound by similar rules to those of State grants.

[clpetersen]

Originally Posted by Mikado463

I hear ya Craig but I would like to see tax credits bound by similar rules to those of State grants.

I agree. I tend to disfavor government intervention in the economy, but in this case, China's excess capacity should not penalize US factories.

Looking at Bethlehem PA, the former steel factory is now a casino - from a wealth-creator (iron ore in one end, ships and skyscrapers out the other) to an effective wealth-destroyer.

If you figure the economic impact of that, you can justify internal subsidies or external tariffs. Slippery path to be sure.

[miner]

Tax credits only if using domestic products, in my opinion

[PHC1]

Protectionism approach has been tried ages ago and failed.

So how about no tax credit for foreign sourced goods? A tax credit for domestic sourced goods and let each company decide what’s better for them. As it stands, I fail to see a reason to reward companies that are cheating on both ends.

[Mikado463]

Originally Posted by miner

Tax credits only if using domestic products, in my opinion

Originally Posted by PHC1

So how about no tax credit for foreign sourced goods?

I concur, I think this situation stands for the fact that it's western Pa where steel had dominated for so long.