Sonus Faber, China & the future

[GaryProtein]

How much is the Venere line expected to sell for?

Having a lower cost, not quite mass market line, often helps a company because gives name recognition to more people and brings in needed capital which can help them foster research and development of higher end products without necessarily raising the already ridiculously high prices of the very high end.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by esteban

Offshoring Hifi: Good for Profit, Bad for Everything Else « The Sophisticated Audiophile

I found the above article relevant in lieu of Sonus faber's recent announcement of the new "made in China" Venere entry-level line of speakers.

You might disagree or agree with what the author has to say (I know I have my own strong opinions on the subject), but at least it is an interesting read.

First production run has been purchased in full by Magnolia/Best Buy, it seems. It breaks my heart to think of the possibilities. If this doesn't work out for the brand, for whatever reason, I can see Best Buy liquidating them on a badly-run floor by a 25-year-old underpaid manager who never heard a proper stereo system in his life (least of all of Franco Serblin), powered by an Onkyo receiver and/or next to a cheapo home-theater-in-a-box system. That is an extreme example, and I exaggerate, of course, but such things have been known to happen.

Have we also forgotten what the name "Sonus faber" means/stands for?

A couple of additional things to consider:
- if the Venere line will be sold at Magnolia, how can small dealers compete with such a retail giant?
- How will this affect the resale value of the rest of the lines?

We will have to wait and see, of course. The folks running these companies obviously know what they are doing. I just hope the bottom line is not only the bottom line.

I admit my respect/admiration for the brand is a little bruised at the moment. Then again, I have been known to worry too much about things beyond my control.

First some points of clarification:

• Magnolia and Best Buy are not interchangeable terms, though BestBuy does own Magnolia.
• Magnolia Home Theater is in over 350 Best Buy stores and has never been a Sonus faber dealer. They are not a Venere dealer.
• Magnolia Audio/Video (and the Design Centers evolved from them) were Sonus faber dealers long before Best Buy bought them. These stores number under 30 nationwide though they are adding more going forward. Their staff is older, more experienced, better trained and better compensated than MHT staff that you deride in your post.

Magnolia Design Centers have not bought the entire first production run but they have made a strong commitment to the brand. Based on the Venere models I have already seen and heard, I expect independent dealers and consumers to fully embrace Venere at a rate far stronger than any speakers Sonus as ever made.

As for the rhetorical Serblin comment I can only say bad form. When the Serblin designed Concert Series and Concert Home Series were made in Italy they were sold by the Tweeter organization in the United States. Tweeter numbered over 150 stores selling Sonus faber. Somehow Sonus dealers managed to thrive and so did Serblin, even when Tweeter went out of business.

As for the China aspect of things, there are many reasons that will be become ever more apparent as we go forward, not the least of which is that the ongoing growth of Sonus faber would make it impossible to build Venere in the current factory. There simply is not the capacity.

Rather than speculate, let me leave you with this: The Venere speakers that I listened to and examined inside and out this past week are the best built, best finished, best sounding speakers Sonus faber has ever produced at their price. And they are designed by exactly the same people who designed your beloved Toy Tower.

But don't take my word for it Esteban. Just wait and see for yourself.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by esteban

Quote:
Originally Posted by esteban

There's a reason why there are no entry-level made-in-China Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc. I could buy cheaper speakers that will sound almost as good. But they wouldn't have the beauty, the flavor nor the craftsmanship of a Sonus faber. You buy them for the sound, first and foremost, of course, but also for the pride of ownership, the pedigree and their uniqueness.

And I think Ferrari is doing ok.

Just remember this when you see and hear Venere.

Also, last time I checked neither Ferrari or Lamborghini build a car that costs 1/100th of their flagship model. They never will.

[esteban]

Bill, all your points, detailed background info and knowledge are well taken, of course. But you have to admit that, for almost 3 decades, and to most of us (myself included), "Sonus faber" was basically synonymous with "Italy" and "hand-made". Whatever that is worth and means. To some (most interested in the brand, I assume), a lot. To others, not much at all. To somebody that is not even aware of the brand's existence, this new line of speakers might be a great entry ticket to the hobby, and the more audiophiles, the merrier.

But I remember seeing the Concerto and Concertino at Sound Advice around 2002/3, if I am not mistaken. I also remember the sales guy there not knowing they were Italian nor what made them so special. They had them on the corner, not connected to anything (I was never able to hear them play music at that store, but I did know them and what they were capable of from back in the day, back home in Argentina, where I originally fell in love with them). They also had a $5K Sony SACD player connected to a HT receiver. Some time afterwards I went back in and the entire SF line was on sale. I did not have the means to make a purchase in those days. A few months after that, the entire line was gone from the store.

I have to be honest: when I bought my Prima Luna amplifier, I knew going in that I was getting a great, reliable, user-friendly tube amp made in China, and made MORE than well. A terrific bargain, in other words. It's been a joy to use to this day, after I learned to love it. Same with my Oppo player. When I bought my Toy Towers, however, in addition to all the above, I ALSO wanted that little extra "fatto in Italia" ingredient.

Thanks again for your input. When you say "your beloved Toy Towers" you are 100% right. When we develop strong emotions and connections with our gear, such as in this case (and I know I am not alone), we tend to get a little melodramatic and jump to conclusions.

In any case, yes, I will reserve final judgement until I hear/see the Venere in person. I look forward to it.

[Kenkirk]

Originally Posted by esteban

Bill, all your points, detailed background info and knowledge are well taken, of course. But you have to admit that, for almost 3 decades, and to most of us (myself included), "Sonus faber" was basically synonymous with "Italy" and "hand-made". Whatever that is worth and means. To some (most interested in the brand, I assume), a lot. To others, not much at all. To somebody that is not even aware of the brand's existence, this new line of speakers might be a great entry ticket to the hobby, and the more audiophiles, the merrier.

But I remember seeing the Concerto and Concertino at Sound Advice around 2002/3, if I am not mistaken. I also remember the sales guy there not knowing they were Italian nor what made them so special. They had them on the corner, not connected to anything (I never was able to her them play music at that store, but I did know them and what they were capable of from back in the day, back home in Argentina, where I originally fell in love with them). They also had a $5K Sony SACD player connected to a HT receiver. Some time afterwards I went back in and the entire SF line was on sale. I did not have the means to make a purchase in those days. A few months after that, the entire line was gone from the store.

I have to be honest: when I bought my Prima Luna amplifier, I knew going in that I was getting a great, reliable, user-friendly tube amp made in China, and made MORE than well. A terrific bargain, in other words. It's been a joy to use to this day, after I learned to love it. Same with my Oppo player. When I bought my Toy Towers, however, in addition to all the above, I ALSO wanted that little extra "fatto in Italia" ingredient.

Thanks again for your input. When you say "your beloved Toy Towers" you are 100% right. When we develop strong emotions and connections with our gear, such as in this case (and I know I am not alone), we tend to get a little melodramatic and jump to conclusions.

In any case, yes, I will reserve final judgement until I hear/see the Venere in person. I look forward to it.

great post!!

but personally I am not impressed with this move by Sonus Faber. But hey, I might buy those yet to be made Sonus Faber computer monitors at Target on sale! Time will tell. Especially if they have some fake wood on the sides!!

[Freestone]

China can and does have exceptional build capabilities. The iPhone is one example.

As an Amati owner I am not concerned. Presentation and sales support does matter so SF needs to exert control there

Frankly my guess is that large but commitment was necessary to procure production financing and better production costs.

[GaryProtein]

The build quality is not determined by the country of origin.

It is determined by the standards set by the company having the product manufactured and the integrity of the people performing the manufacturing.

The West had better watch out, because like the Westerner's impression of "Made in Japan" in the 1960's, meaning cheap crap compared to now, where we often look for, or at least respect the high quality products made in Japan, the same thing will happen to China. They have 1.2 billion people and while they, like the US, or any other country have the ability to make crap, they certainly have the manpower, the educational system and new high tech manufacturing capabilities to put out the best quality products in the world if they desire. They aren't stupid.

[esteban]

Originally Posted by GaryProtein

The build quality is not determined by the country of origin.

It is determined by the standards set by the company having the product manufactured and the integrity of the people performing the manufacturing.

The West had better watch out, because like the Westerner's impression of "Made in Japan" in the 1960's, meaning cheap crap compared to now, where we often look for, or at least respect the high quality products made in Japan, the same thing will happen to China. They have 1.2 billion people and while they, like the US, or any other country have the ability to make crap, they certainly have the manpower, the educational system and new high tech manufacturing capabilities to put out the best quality products in the world if they desire. They aren't stupid.

Your points are well taken, but they were never in dispute in the first place. Again, I own many Chinese products myself and could not be happier with them. For all we know, a Chinese-built Sonus faber might be better built. But the point is what I tried to express in my previous posts: in other words, how much "Italian" and "SF" go hand-in-hand. Naive of me in this day and age? Perhaps. Time will tell how this will affect the brand.

[Freestone]

It's where the design is. I don't think of my iPhone as a Chinese product in its soul...

[Face]

Originally Posted by Freestone

It's where the design is. I don't think of my iPhone as a Chinese product in its soul...

Let's not bring back up that ghost thread again...

FYI, comparing the iPhone to SF is doing SF a disservice...do a little research on the iPhone factory and you'll see why.