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  #1  
Old 03-27-2013, 08:19 PM
junker junker is offline
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Default AES Digital Cable Length?

I spoke with Michael Ritter, the owner Berkeley Audio Design yesterday regarding cable lengths with the Berkeley Audio Design SPDIF to USB converter and the Berkeley Audio Design Alpha 2 DAC.

He said they recommend 1.5m USB and AES 110Ω XLR cables. The reasoning on the AES cable is that there is a signal "reflection" with any impedance mismatch that reflects and perturbs the signal in the cable causing jitter. Sounds good enough for me...

But, I was wondering if one were to just go super-short with a 0.5m cable would this be short enough to prevent much time delay in any replaced signal? I'd much rather use a short cable between 2 stacked chassis, and obviously the cost would be much lower.

On a related topic, would my 0.5m Kimber Silver USB cable test with higher jitter than a 1.5m cable run in the same way as described above?

Has anyone tried testing varied cable lengths and heard an audible difference?

I'd think that it is a trade-off between picking up interference and signal losses at longer lengths, vs. possible impedance-based reflections and induced jitter at <1.5m lengths?

Any thoughts?

Last edited by junker; 03-27-2013 at 08:23 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-27-2013, 08:45 PM
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I currently use a 6.0M WW Platinum Starlight USB with zero issues, compared to much shorter lengths.
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  #3  
Old 03-27-2013, 10:13 PM
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You may be hard pressed to hear a difference initially, I think you'd want to test it on the bench (or listen to the manufacturers who have done this for you). Added jitter can make subtle changes that you may or may not be able to decipher, but will ultimately affect the sound. If you had a rig where you could instantly switch then I think you could put your finger on it.

Regardless of the above, dac manufacturers put a lot of effort (and hence cost to us) into minimising jitter so I wouldn't risk wasting their efforts by using a shorter cable. Some companies don't list cables shorter than a certain length and if you request them, they don't discount.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:29 AM
junker junker is offline
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Yeah, I think you are right. I'll just do a 1.5m if I go that route and rely on the experts at BADA.

Still not sure about the USB cable, and will probably continue to use the 0.5m until I have an opportunity to compare that to a 1.5m.
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:27 AM
Glisse Glisse is offline
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With the BADA pair, I could not hear any difference between 1.5m and 2m AES/EBU. I do think shorter USB cables can sound better than longer ones, but these are subtle differences. The type (brand) of the USB cable seems to have more influence than the length, to me.

I think Michael's comments are general advice, but he knows what he is talking about.

What I have found with the BADA pairing, and I posted it on one of Adam's threads, is that they respond to high quality cabling. This probably sounds like a motherhood, but I also have Weiss equipment that sounds the same with pro cables as it does with audiophile cables. Not so the BADA.

For AES/EBU cables, I have got excellent results from WW Gold Starlight - which is a silver cable. Better with the BADA than well regarded cables from Jorma Design and Furutech (both copper).

I know Kimber, which you seem to like, have 2 or 3 silver AES cables, but I have not heard them. I would suggest you use the best AES cable you can with BADA.

The BADA pair sound great, I am sure you will enjoy them
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:08 PM
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Thank you so much for the responses!

Still waiting to decide between a C2500 or a BADA with the USB converter.

I've been researching this issue quite a bit, and it is pretty interesting...

A 1m cable is pretty much the worst-case scenario if you assume a 25nS rise-time and a 12nS round-trip for reflections(s) caused by any impedance mis-matches since the reflection will approximately coincide with the 0V segment of the V rise, approximately when the '0' is registered as a '1'. Any deviation here would directly correlate to jitter.

spdif

With a 1.5m cable the reflection round-trip would take about 18nS and would arrive ~ 6nS after the 0V point, and most likely after the '1' state had been registered.

I heard back from Steve Nugent from Empirical Audio today and he said it would also be okay to go very short as well. He suggested as short as 6".

So what I will probably do is to compare a 0.25m to a 1.5m and see if I can hear a difference. Almost just for curiosity's sake if for no other reason.

You are right I have all Kimber in my system, but would also consider StraightWire and Wire World.

Nate M. from Kimber said he would make me any length I want and if I didn't like it I could return it. So, I'll probably compare a 0.25m Kimber TGDL (hex braid silver-teflon) to a 1.5m WW Gold Starlight like you, or possibly the Straightwire. The Platinum WW is just too expensive for me even though I'm sure it is a fantastic cable. The Kimber looks very nice, but also it isn't shielded (other than the two braided ground wires) so I don't know if that could be an issue with such a short "jumper" length...

Even if I go with the C2500, I'd still consider the BADA USB converter and run it into the S/PDIF input on the 2500. We'll have to see. It probably won't be before tax time...

Last edited by junker; 03-29-2013 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:26 PM
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I'm looking for forward to your impressions...
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:32 PM
Elberoth Elberoth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glisse View Post
For AES/EBU cables, I have got excellent results from WW Gold Starlight - which is a silver cable. Better with the BADA than well regarded cables from Jorma Design and Furutech (both copper).
Tkanks for the tip Need to try one of those.
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Old 06-15-2013, 09:02 PM
jcarberryj jcarberryj is offline
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Just FYI, I too use WW USB and AES with my Berkeley
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Old 06-16-2013, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarberryj View Post
Just FYI, I too use WW USB and AES with my Berkeley
What lengths?
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