PH5 vs PH6, PH8 and Ref 2 SE

[BillK]

Of course the Ref 2 SE will sound the best of the bunch, but when comparing cost vs. value is the PH8 a sweet spot of performance/cost, given the Ref 2 SE is almost exactly 2x the price of the PH8, which itself is about 2x the price of the PH6.

Also, has anyone here bothered to upgrade from the PH5 to the PH6, or is it not really worth it unless you make the jump to the PH8?

Love my PH5, just thinking of upgrades.

[Mikado463]

Originally Posted by BillK

Love my PH5, just thinking of upgrades.

so did I........I went with Jim Fosgate's piece....love it !

[Dafos]

A used ref phono 2 would be my choice for one important reason: total gain of 70db. The ph 5,6,7 or 8, while all great performers, only offer 57 db of gain, a bit shy when used with very low output mc carts of 2mv and below.

[tunes]

Originally Posted by Dafos

A used ref phono 2 would be my choice for one important reason: total gain of 70db. The ph 5,6,7 or 8, while all great performers, only offer 57 db of gain, a bit shy when used with very low output mc carts of 2mv and below.

Ref phono 2 has balanced outs which i like. Another plus for the ref phono 2 are the two inputs if you have, or intend to have, two tables or arms. This is one of the things i love about the rhea and why i waited for a used ref phono 2 to come up.

[Dafos]

Actual experience with a Koetsu cart thru a ph7 driving a ref 3 and ref 110 had me cranking up the volume to 75 and above which, in my opinion, is beyond the sweet spot of the ref 3's volume control range. The loss in dynamics, detail and overall impact due to inadequate gain was clearly brought to fore when I borrowed an aesthetix and a much cheaper sutherland, both of which had max gain of 70.

[karsajid]

Originally Posted by Dafos

Actual experience with a Koetsu cart thru a ph7 driving a ref 3 and ref 110 had me cranking up the volume to 75 and above which, in my opinion, is beyond the sweet spot of the ref 3's volume control range. The loss in dynamics, detail and overall impact due to inadequate gain was clearly brought to fore when I borrowed an aesthetix and a much cheaper sutherland, both of which had max gain of 70.

The PH 5/6/7/8 seem to work better with the ARC LS 26/27 preamps rather than the REF series preamps. This is probably because the LS series offer higher gain (upto 24db) than the REF (max 12db on Balanced).

That is why I chose to use the RCM Audio Sensor phonostage with my REF 5SE instead of the ARC PH phonostages. It has higher gain (70db) AND balanced connections.

This will be useful for anyone using lower output MC cartridges.

The REF 2 with its higher gain is better match with the REF preamps than the PH range.

[BillK]

I use a high output MC (Sumiko Blackbird) so I don't need a lot of gain from my phono stage, at least at present.

[Mikado463]

Originally Posted by Dafos

very low output mc carts of 2mv and below.

that's not low at all........unless you mean .2 mv and anything below that level is ridiculus.

[Dafos]

Originally Posted by Mikado463

that's not low at all........unless you mean .2 mv and anything below that level is ridiculus.

My mistake, thanks for pointing this out.

I also agree with the observation of the ref preamps low overall gain of 12 db and that's assuming one uses a balanced source to feed it, which the ph models are not.

Btw my experience is that using a step up transformer into the ph7 set at 47k input overloads it during loud passages.