Devore Silverbacks Reference Ordered !

[NeilNZ]

There will be no further comments. I had attempted to disengage repeatedly, however having words put in my mouth regarding product forced me to respond. I apologise if you thought I stepped over the mark.
Its just audio guys, it's supposed to be fun! Not worth the stress and drama of this sort of stuff.

[jdandy]

Neil.......The easiest way to disengage is to stop typing.

You are right. It's just audio. There is no such thing as "The Best" anyway. It will always remain a moving target.

My motto is, if it isn't fun then I don't want anything to do with it. That seems to work pretty well for me.

[2fastdriving]

The easiest way to get along here (and in life generally), is to recognize that no two people share the exact same opinions, and that's ok. Separate facts from opinions and let the chips fall where they may. We all hear things differently.

It never helps to disparage any opinion or equipment. I've traded up and up and up. Yet I will never blast any equipment I've moved away from as terrible, only posit that it didn't work for me in the context of my long term goals.

I'm glad this site is so friendly and helpful... let's all work together to keep it that way.

[Jerome W]

I have had side by side the CCQ and the mighty wonderful 2301's amplifiers, the awesome Manley Snappers, the Rega Osiris SS amp, the ARC D100 SS amplifier, the Naim NAP250 SS amp, and the Audiolab (old gen made in the UK ) 8000PX amp.
All of them driving PMC EB1i and Wilson WP8's. Supposed to be rather tough loads suited more to SS amps.
I lliked all of them. And I could still be happy with the 2301's or the Snappers. But the very best performers on both speakers were the CCQ, and this was shared by all the people who came home for a listening. The CCQ superiority was on each and every field of the listening experience.

Those amps are not " all mighty ". They cannot drive all speakers on earth. But they can drive perfectly and musically most common designs of speakers to ear safe levels. The Harbeths Monitor 40.1 make no exception to this.

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[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Jerome W

I have had side by the CCQ and the mighty wonderful 2301's amplifiers, the awesome Manley Snappers, the Rega Osiris SS amp, the ARC D100 SS amplifier, the Naim NAP250 SS amp, and the Audiolab (old gen made in the UK ) 8000PX amp.
All of them driving PMC EB1i and Wilson WP8's. Supposed to be rather tough loads suited more to SS amps.
I lliked all of them. But the very best performers on both speakers were the CCQ, and this was shared by all the people who came home for a listening. The CCQ superiority was on each and every field of the listening experience.

Those amps are not " all mighty ". They cannot drive all speakers on earth. But they can drive perfectly and musically most common designs of speakers to ear safe levels. The Harbeths Monitor 40.1 make no exception to this.

Sent from my iPad using A.Aficionado

And I should add that if Shindo amps are made only for speakers of more than 8ohm of impedance, and let's say 93 dB, then, why the need for 70 W monoblocks ? The Cortese, Montille, CC, D'Yquem, Lafon....would be enough.
Were the CCQ made to sonorize movie theaters on Voice of the Theater speakers ?? Or for domestic Hifi ?
If they were made for domestic hifi, why the need for 100dB sensitivity speakers ? To loose our ears ?


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[2fastdriving]

Ear safe levels. We should all keep this in mind. My ref75 can easily push my Sasha's to 100db with no perceived distortion. Why go louder? Sure, you can, but why? It's enough.

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

Ear safe levels. We should all keep this in mind. My ref75 can easily push my Sasha's to 100db with no perceived distortion. Why go louder? Sure, you can, but why? It's enough.

Marc, the REF75 is an amp I would like to hear on my speakers !

[magoo]

Originally Posted by Jerome W

why the need for 70 W monoblocks ? The Cortese, Montille, CC, D'Yquem, Lafon....would be enough.



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Historically, the Brit's have suceceded in exporting very few things to Japan....The Garrard 301/401 TT's and we know Mr Shindo was a fan of the 301 at least, the Tannoy Prestige line of speakers, and the LS3/5A speaker, and it's later day iterations including Harbeth. It would seem that Mr Shindo wanted at least one amp in his range that would drive either of these speakers satisfactorily (while there are surely Tannoy owners using flea powered SET's, the common consensus is they like a few more watts.....much the same with Harbeths generally). I suspect Mr Shindo took a simple business decision to offer an amp that would allow his customers in Japan to choose Shindo over the numerous competitors in his local market - obviously this is speculation, but hopefully with a degree of logic behind it. In the spirit of Shindo's wine based nomenclature, a good Sommelier will offer their customers the perfect choice, whatever dish they choose

On the relevant page of Pitch Perfect's site, Matt says this - *"I would think these amps are just the ticket for certain speakers requiring the power, all the while safeguarding the virtues of Shindo’s tonal touch."* By the sound of it, they succeed rather well in this with the Harbeth M40.1's

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by magoo

Historically, the Brit's have suceceded in exporting very few things to Japan....The Garrard 301/401 TT's and we know Mr Shindo was a fan of the 301 at least, the Tannoy Prestige line of speakers, and the LS3/5A speaker, and it's later day iterations including Harbeth. It would seem that Mr Shindo wanted at least one amp in his range that would drive either of these speakers satisfactorily (while there are surely Tannoy owners using flea powered SET's, the common consensus is they like a few more watts.....much the same with Harbeths generally). I suspect Mr Shindo took a simple business decision to offer an amp that would allow his customers in Japan to choose Shindo over the numerous competitors in his local market - obviously this is speculation, but hopefully with a degree of logic behind it. In the spirit of Shindo's wine based nomenclature, a good Sommelier will offer their customers the perfect choice, whatever dish they choose

On the relevant page of Pitch Perfect's site, Matt says this - *"I would think these amps are just the ticket for certain speakers requiring the power, all the while safeguarding the virtues of Shindo’s tonal touch."* By the sound of it, they succeed rather well in this with the Harbeth M40.1's

That is my guess too Matt. Great post !

But I did not dare to say it because the Shindo guys here draw the colts after 2 words.

My guess too is that the CCQ is made for " fool " guys like me, who want to enjoy a part of the Shindo sound with conventional speakers.

[kev313]

Originally Posted by magoo

Historically, the Brit's have suceceded in exporting very few things to Japan....The Garrard 301/401 TT's and we know Mr Shindo was a fan of the 301 at least, the Tannoy Prestige line of speakers, and the LS3/5A speaker, and it's later day iterations including Harbeth. It would seem that Mr Shindo wanted at least one amp in his range that would drive either of these speakers satisfactorily (while there are surely Tannoy owners using flea powered SET's, the common consensus is they like a few more watts.....much the same with Harbeths generally). I suspect Mr Shindo took a simple business decision to offer an amp that would allow his customers in Japan to choose Shindo over the numerous competitors in his local market - obviously this is speculation, but hopefully with a degree of logic behind it. In the spirit of Shindo's wine based nomenclature, a good Sommelier will offer their customers the perfect choice, whatever dish they choose On the relevant page of Pitch Perfect's site, Matt says this - *"I would think these amps are just the ticket for certain speakers requiring the power, all the while safeguarding the virtues of Shindo’s tonal touch."* By the sound of it, they succeed rather well in this with the Harbeth M40.1's

Assertions with no proof! ASSERTIONS WITH NO PROOF!!!

Jerome - Sounds like you found a nice match for you. I had several Devore models and your description of the Harbeths is nothing like how I would've described my Devores. Audio fate that you did not get the Silverbacks perhaps. If I were to make an assertion, it would be that to think of Shindo pieces in terms of a particular amp for a particular purpose is missing the point. Historically, yes, Shindo does seem to spring more from the low power, high efficiency, high impedance world.

Were the higher power models a marketing choice or an exercise in design? Don't know. Given that he was small volume and extremely successful, I'd be surprised if it was necessary or even feasible to consider the market place at large when designing a new model. Doesn't seem to totally fit the sales mentality either. Not only that, I'd suspect that his store of rare tubes and speakers would make some of the flashy shiny silver audio box collections of some noted ...ummm... enthusiasts here look as worthless as a closetful of 1980s Armani suits.

It could just be that your amps really do better into different speakers. I don't know, but I do know that Shindo's site has *forever* shown another high power model - Sinhonias - with Altecs. I have no idea, but it looks like you and Neil are just about saying the same thing.