HiFi News 803 Review

[James]

Originally Posted by Elberoth

I cant believe how badly this speaker measures for the price. They insist on using 1-order x-over filters on drive units not suitable for this. The FQ response unevenness and mid driver resonances shows that.

Yes I agree. Looks like they did not fix the issue at 4K which was my only real issue with the older 802D and 802Di. I was going to hear these this weekend (still might) but will most likely pass.

[Elberoth]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay

The measurements were made in close proximity and at the mid point of the fst height, which is below the designed listening height.

If they had taken measurements at the reference height (just below tweeter) the response would have been essentially flat.

Fwiw, the waterfall looks very clean. There's is some low level delayed energy in the low treble, probably due to diffraction, but it's insignificant.

It will never be flat with those drive units and this type of x-over (1st order).

You may move the mike as much as you like, and the FR will always be very uneven. B&W are almost 'famous' for this, as their previous models have exhibited the very same problems.

The waterfall looks clean at first sight as the drive units are of high quality and the box is very robust. But you can still see midrange driver breakup, which could be avoided with higher order filters.

[GreginNH1]

I don't understand all this technical stuff. All I can say is that the speakers sound AMAZING!

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by metaphacts

Perhaps, but one might hope that fact checking, proofreading, and editing would be handled a bit more effectively in such an important review.

That is just my speculation as B&W people made similar types of statements (but not, I think, that one) during my recent visit. All indicated that, in terms of volume, B&W is the biggest player in high-end speakers world-wide. I, too, cannot recall the specifics.

[Venere]

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

I think it is probably a misquote of a similar statement he got from B&W.

A better and more factual statement would be to call it the best-selling or most popular high-end speaker in the world (depending of course on how one defined high-end) which is perhaps true considering their comprehensive worldwide distribution network. Far different from using the word "majority" and all that it implies.

[Venere]

Btw...i am surprised to see the adherence of many commentors to the school of measurements over listening. Much has been written recently in Ab Sound, Sterophile, and other pubs (mostly regarding Magicos) of the perhaps overrated merits of a flat measured FR. Apparently our ears dont "hear" equally at all frenquencies, which is why many listeners prefer the tuned responses of many speakers, particularly traditional Brit brands, and consider flat FR speakers such as Magicos to sound cold and clinical. Each buyer must satisfy their own priorities, but I for one would always value my own listening impressions (even if they are biased) over lab measurements.

[GreginNH1]

Originally Posted by Venere

Btw...i am surprised to see the adherence of many commentors to the school of measurements over listening. Much has been written recently in Ab Sound, Sterophile, and other pubs (mostly regarding Magicos) of the perhaps overrated merits of a flat measured FR. Apparently our ears dont "hear" equally at all frenquencies, which is why many listeners prefer the tuned responses of many speakers, particularly traditional Brit brands, and consider flat FR speakers such as Magicos to sound cold and clinical. Each buyer must satisfy their own priorities, but I for one would always value my own listening impressions (even if they are biased) over lab measurements.

Well stated Venere.

[crwilli]

Originally Posted by Venere

Btw...i am surprised to see the adherence of many commentors to the school of measurements over listening. Much has been written recently in Ab Sound, Sterophile, and other pubs (mostly regarding Magicos) of the perhaps overrated merits of a flat measured FR. Apparently our ears dont "hear" equally at all frenquencies, which is why many listeners prefer the tuned responses of many speakers, particularly traditional Brit brands, and consider flat FR speakers such as Magicos to sound cold and clinical. Each buyer must satisfy their own priorities, but I for one would always value my own listening impressions (even if they are biased) over lab measurements.

Until otherwise, I am buying speakers and gear for myself so fully agree with your point. I pay attention to specs to sort things out but have to listen to new speakers for sure before buying.

[metaphacts]

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

That is just my speculation as B&W people made similar types of statements (but not, I think, that one) during my recent visit. All indicated that, in terms of volume, B&W is the biggest player in high-end speakers world-wide. I, too, cannot recall the specifics.

There is no doubt B&W is the biggest player in high-end speakers world-wide.

[Pio]

brandonsweden, Indytown, Art Vandelay - No problem, my pleasure in putting the article up.

Originally Posted by Venere

A better and more factual statement would be to call it the best-selling or most popular high-end speaker in the world (depending of course on how one defined high-end) which is perhaps true considering their comprehensive worldwide distribution network. Far different from using the word "majority" and all that it implies.

If memory serves, Wilson Audio used to make a similar statement with the Watt / Puppy - think it was best selling high end speaker over $15k, or similar. To me, statements like that are marketing Jedi mind tricks, everyone else loves these, what about you???

The biggest endorsement Bowers & Wilkins have is being in studios like Abbey Road, Skywalker Sound, etc. The fact that the N801 was once widely used in classical music mastering says a lot about a speaker with low coloration, great frequency range, clarity, etc.

If I were in B&W's marketing department, I would be getting ready to ship the brand new models to these studios free of charge! HAHA!!

My biggest concern with the new 802D3 is the 1.1 ohm dip at 71hz and the 1.4 ohm dip at 890 in the response. Tough load.

Regarding frequency response peaks and all that - no speaker will be perfect and if it leaves the factory as close to "perfect" as possible (like Revel speakers which their frequency response is always stated as -/+ 1.5 db vs -/+ 3.0 db which is the norm) your room will screw it up with standing waves, comb filtering, slap echo, etc.

If you go nuts with sound treatment and make you're room sound too dead, you still wont be happy because a dead room is just as bad as a live one.

Every speaker has a voice, every room adds in a positive AND a negative way to that voice, you simply can't get away from this truth.

Music is recorded by equipment into equipment in a room. All these "steps" add to the sound of what's being recorded in someway. Even live music is colored by the sound of the venue!

Listen for yourself and buy what you like, not what someone tells you you should like.

And remember, don't overlook the room! I would rather have a pair of Nautilus 802's in a great room than a pair of 802D3's in a crappy room.