MC207 Powerful Enough For 802's?

[dixon007]

Originally Posted by thxthx

Possibly? Could pick up a cheap amp to run the rears. How much of a difference would it make?

I have a HT 5.1 set-up. My front L and R speakers are bi-amped with the MC8207 and it is configured as such by the MX121 (I think the key is configuring it properly, I had help with it). It makes a very noticeable difference. I use 2 pair of speaker cables per speaker. Maybe worth a try.

[playdrv4me]

Originally Posted by thxthx

Thanks for all the feedback... Since they were probably the last ones in the country I took the plunge and purchased a pair of 802's. Also got a matching HTM2.

I think I'll get by but I won't fully appreciate these speakers until I upgrade my amp. Just getting the speakers is a dream come true

Great choice.

I've had experience with dozens of combinations of amps and B&W 800 Series speakers, and I can tell you that your MC207 will be MORE than sufficient. There are plenty of people who drive their 802s with nothing more than a pair or even a SINGLE MC275 and have amazingly satisfying results.

Keep in mind that for most listening you're going to be at less than 50 (probably less than 30) watts to begin with. It's a common misconception that you come to learn about as you get more experience with audio that "more power" automatically equals "more dynamic" or better sound. Convenient buzzwords that really don't mean a whole lot in a completely scientific sense. I've had 802 Diamonds connected to MC601s, I've had them connected to my prized made in Japan Pioneer VSX-49TX surround receiver from 2001 and I've had them connected to a Classe CA-5200 multichannel amp. In all cases, they sounded exactly the same... The only SLIGHT difference perhaps came in to play with the Pioneer's internal DACs and such being a little laid back, but that has nothing to do with the amplification. And of course this is all a testament to how well all of those amplifiers are made and able to produce stable current. The Pioneer isn't even rated to be 2 ohm stable and the B&Ws can dip all the way down there... never a problem.

Truth be told, the 601s went away because yeah, they were nice living room jewelry, but they were not creating some marked difference from the other equipment I had. Now, there *ARE* potential "voicing" differences from the MC207 (I don't know how new that model is) to the 601s as older Mac gear reportedly had a "darker" sound and newer has a "brighter" sound. But that still has zilch to do with power ratings. Most people who want a big beefy amplifier for their 802s, or pretty much anything really, would do just fine with an MC452... The best bang for the buck solitary amp in the McIntosh line. The best combo unit is the MA8000.

[Spinpsycho]

AMPLIFIER DISTORTION
The most common source of speaker damage results from amplifier distortion. Your amplifier may run out
of clean power upon listening at loud levels. A direct consequence of such an overuse is distorted power,
producing a greater quantity of distortion than its rated output power. This provides a threat of damage
to any loudspeaker.
The greater the amplifier power, the safer the loudness potential. A 50 watt/channel amplifier, if driven
above this 50 watt/channel limit, will naturally produce multiplicatively more distortion than at 50 watts.
A 120 watt/channel amplifier will have substantial distortion above 120 watts, but will not allow any
significant distortion below 100 watts. To conclude, more amplifier power provides cleaner power and
less possibility for damage.

[Venere]

Originally Posted by Spinpsycho

AMPLIFIER DISTORTION The most common source of speaker damage results from amplifier distortion. Your amplifier may run out of clean power upon listening at loud levels. A direct consequence of such an overuse is distorted power, producing a greater quantity of distortion than its rated output power. This provides a threat of damage to any loudspeaker. The greater the amplifier power, the safer the loudness potential. A 50 watt/channel amplifier, if driven above this 50 watt/channel limit, will naturally produce multiplicatively more distortion than at 50 watts. A 120 watt/channel amplifier will have substantial distortion above 120 watts, but will not allow any significant distortion below 100 watts. To conclude, more amplifier power provides cleaner power and less possibility for damage.

All true....unless your speakers and your listening habits (and room) simply dont require more power to play loudly enough without distortion. In which case paying for more power is a waste of money. As with most things in our hobby, its all about system matching and the right tool for the job.

[playdrv4me]

Originally Posted by Venere

All true....unless your speakers and your listening habits (and room) simply dont require more power to play loudly enough without distortion. In which case paying for more power is a waste of money. As with most things in our hobby, its all about system matching and the right tool for the job.

My point exactly. You can discuss technical details and distortion numbers (a convenient argument I suppose) until you're blue in the face, but the fact is a lot of people are still paying for way more power than they need based on the *belief* that "more power" is *directly* equivalent to "better sound". It's not a truism, at all. Mostly, it just makes you feel better to have a bigger number.

I was very skeptical when Ron-C of McIntosh would say that a single MC275 is enough for a pair of 802s. But sure enough, there are some people out there running that with very positive results.

[thxthx]

Power seems ok for my listening level and room size. Watching the meters, they hardly ever pass half way and that is at quite a loud volume. I have also noticed that the speakers are so clean that I just keep putting the volume up and up without noticing until the wife walks in advising me of the earthquake she is feeling upstairs! The MC207 is definitely good enough for decent movie listening!

[playdrv4me]

Originally Posted by thxthx

Power seems ok for my listening level and room size. Watching the meters, they hardly ever pass half way and that is at quite a loud volume. I have also noticed that the speakers are so clean that I just keep putting the volume up and up without noticing until the wife walks in advising me of the earthquake she is feeling upstairs! The MC207 is definitely good enough for decent movie listening!

I'm willing to bet you will probably still give in to the bug and end up replacing the MC207 with some monos, but given the amount of enjoyment you're getting as it is, there is really no need to do so. Congrats on the setup.

[SMC23]

Originally Posted by playdrv4me

My point exactly. You can discuss technical details and distortion numbers (a convenient argument I suppose) until you're blue in the face, but the fact is a lot of people are still paying for way more power than they need based on the *belief* that "more power" is *directly* equivalent to "better sound". It's not a truism, at all. Mostly, it just makes you feel better to have a bigger number.

I was very skeptical when Ron-C of McIntosh would say that a single MC275 is enough for a pair of 802s. But sure enough, there are some people out there running that with very positive results.

Well for me and my experience there is a difference even at the same volume levels between Mc205 and mc452/mc601. No doubt about that to my ears and from reports of others as well. Surely an Mc275 would sound different from an mc205 as well and capable of driving 802s.

[playdrv4me]

Originally Posted by SMC23

Well for me and my experience there is a difference even at the same volume levels between Mc205 and mc452/mc601. No doubt about that to my ears and from reports of others as well. Surely an Mc275 would sound different from an mc205 as well and capable of driving 802s.

Those amps could well be from different generations and voiced differently. The 452 and 601 in particular are both from the newer generation of Mac amps voiced (reportedly) more brightly than the older stuff. Not even sure how the multichannel ones fit in that world. Then you have the whole effect of what we hear, what we think we hear based on what we want to hear etc. that makes direct A/B comparisons so meaningful.

In other words, I don't doubt you do hear a difference. In fact, I don't even doubt that it sounds better, but there could be numerous reasons why that is, not *strictly* that the 452 or 601 provide more power. Now, to muddy the waters even further, I have heard it said that for every some number of watts, you'll get more volume at a given volume level if coming from the same preamp for example. And if that's the case, we all know that more volume always makes things sound better which could skew our opinion. Or in most cases anyway.

That said, there absolutely are differences that make themselves apparent between *quality* equipment and cheap or poorly made equipment even at the SAME wattage levels. So I would hope someone doesn't interpret what I said about power needs as an excuse to go power a pair of 802 Diamonds with a garbage china made Sony receiver off the shelf at Best Buy that weighs all of 8 pounds in your palm, either. That's just ASKING for a potential clipping situation that could harm your speakers. Not that anyone here would do that, but just to be clear.