Preamp outputs - balanced vs unbalanced

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by tdelahanty

Generally speaking, balanced outputs have higher gain (6db) and are quieter.

Originally Posted by Face

Yes, a lower noise floor.

But beware, not all gear with balanced connections are actually fully balanced.

This comes up so often. Balanced is balanced and fully is redundant. In addition, the use of XLR connections is not adequate indication that the connection is balanced.

If the connections are balanced, i.e., driven differentially into a differential input stage, then all the advantages described are attained. It does not matter if the central, internal circuitry of either component is or is not balanced.

[LordoftheRingsEE]

...Then you have Balanced XLR connections, and Unbalanced XLR connections (with or without a ground).

* Is that what you "truly fully" mean Kal?

______________

I'm going to add this: Why is that that so many "professional" audio reviewers are using the term 'fully' or 'truly' when describing an audio product with XLR balanced connections, and its internal's implementation?
...Really. ...Like truly balanced, or not truly balanced.

- Rectification: The proper term is dual-differential XLR balanced preamp outputs (or amp inputs).

For me; 'fully' means from the input to output; fully balanced, all the way.
If not, then it is not really dual-differential balanced outputs (or inputs, or both).

...Words to describe our audio world, and the different meanings they have for/to different people.
Yeah, what is the absolu!e standard to describe what our ears hear and what graphs show.
...And of course the right words from their own context used in a universal audio language.

Are some audio people trying to reinvent the audio world? ...Mechanically and financially.

[Kal Rubinson]

I meant what I said and I said what I meant. A (fully, truly, madly, deeply) balanced connection can be established between two devices by properly defining the output of one and the input of the other.

Now, if you want to talk about the device or product itself, the domain extends from input to output, as you say.

The only need to use the adverbs is as defense against the common misuse of the term.

[o0OBillO0o]

Look at the McIntosh C1000 or Bridge Audio Labs Pre.

The redundant volume control and circuitry in a fully balanced component goes to the extreme to lower the noise floor.

Some say why bother.

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by o0OBillO0o

Look at the McIntosh C1000 or Bridge Audio Labs Pre.

Quite impressive.

[LordoftheRingsEE]

-- Truly impressive indeed.

[o0OBillO0o]

Originally Posted by o0OBillO0o

Look at the McIntosh C1000 or Bridge Audio Labs Pre.

The redundant volume control and circuitry in a fully balanced component goes to the extreme to lower the noise floor.

Some say why bother.

Sent from my iPhone using A.Aficionado

When I first saw this photo I had no clue what I was looking at...

Okay see the four banks of resistors surrounded in red/orange? That's a volume control for left and right for unbalanced AND balanced! That's redundancy and comes at a great cost.

[Rayooo]

The phrase-that-pays in this discussion is: "Common Mode Rejection" which balanced systems by design are great at dealing with.

Think of an old time Microphone, low levels, long wires...subject to all kinds of noise-pickup along the cable run.

Using a balanced signal from the source, (Microphone in this case) any noise picked up along the cable run, is then by definition "common" to both signal lines. At the receiving end, the common signals, when run through a differential amplifier stage, cancel, the +signal and -signal (beautiful music hopefully) add. cool, no noise, just sweet music.

Balanced audio signals and XLR connectors are demanded in professional/industrial environments. Somewhat less demanded in other environments, but, just the same, there's simply no chance that the technology would not be used in home/user/non-professional cases also. and as one would expect, the benefit of "balanced" in home environments, like dozens of other technologies, will be debated over, and over, and over and over by the great audiophile community at large.

[randyalavasg]

do you still reap the benefits in a mixed configuration, eg:

1) connection between dac and preamp is balanced (assuming both are fully balanced design)
2) connection between preamp and active speakers is single ended (no balance inputs on the speakers)

i imagine life would have been easier if i were running a power amp to passive speakers, then i would have the option to change to a balanced power amp

[Rayooo]

Originally Posted by randyalavasg

do you still reap the benefits in a mixed configuration, eg:

1) connection between dac and preamp is balanced (assuming both are fully balanced design)
2) connection between preamp and active speakers is single ended (no balance inputs on the speakers)

i imagine life would have been easier if i were running a power amp to passive speakers, then i would have the option to change to a balanced power amp

In my opinion....
From a purely technical point of view, if your preamp has a true differential input buffer, it would in fact right there cancel any noise picked up between your DAC's output and preamp's input. The question would be "how much noise is picked up in that short run?".

From an Audiophile-Nervosa point of view, if you've got'em, use 'em...If I had a balanced DAC output, and Preamp inputs, I'd use the balanced connection...just because.

In actuality, the run from preamp to active speakers, assuming a longer cable run, might just benefit from balanced vs unbalanced, IF of course the speakers had true differential inputs.