Money best spent?

[AudioNut]

Hey Don,

I am so glad that after 100 years, or so, of succumbing to "upgradeitis", and spending tons of money to attain - what usually were - marginal (at best) results, I have finally decided that "enough is enough" and that my music systems are "good enough"

Seriously, you have excellent equipment. My best advice is "Make sure that whatever you purchase will make a "real" difference in the sound of your system", and realize that once you reach the level where you consider your system to be "darn good", most upgrades will usually produce only incremental differences, and will often disappoint, because you have spent - all that money - and your system only sounds a "tiny little bit better"

I've even "upgraded" and made my own system sound "a little bit worse".

I've bought stuff in the past based on what other people and magazine reviews have told me - and finally realized that any major money spent should be the result of my own listening - in my own system if possible -

Heck, for all I know, your Shelter 501 MkII cartridge, and the phone stage in your Luxman integrated, may be extraordinary and it would cost mega bucks to make significant improvement. So, take time evaluating, and don't order stuff based just on what other folks say.

[AudioNut]

Originally Posted by cmalak

Agreed. First phono stage and then cart. Budget? SS vs. tube?

As a counterpoint to my previous post, I've been reading Cyril's posts for a long, long time, and know him to be a true fount of wisdom, as are many others here.

Cyril will not steer you wrong, but even he hasn't heard your system and doesn't know, from personal evaluation, if, or how much, a new phono stage will improve things. Listen to what he has told you, but then try to listen for yourself before you buy.

[cmalak]

Originally Posted by AudioNut

As a counterpoint to my previous post, I've been reading Cyril's posts for a long, long time, and know him to be a true fount of wisdom, as are many others here.

Cyril will not steer you wrong, but even he hasn't heard your system and doesn't know, from personal evaluation, if, or how much, a new phono stage will improve things. Listen to what he has told you, but then try to listen for yourself before you buy.

I agree with you a hundred percent Julian. I have not heard his system and have no way of telling if the suggestions I made are true steps up in sonic performance. My logic in suggesting the phono stage as a potential upgrade target first is solely based on my assumption that phono stages embedded in integrated amps will be a "compromised" design in terms of circuit design, parts used, sheilding, shared power supply, etc...so I think I am on safe ground suggesting that there ought to be a sonic improvement going from Don's integrated phono to a stand-alone phono stage. Beyond that, I totally agree that Don should try to seek out and hear the phono stage before buying (unfortunately auditioning phono stages is pretty hard given the dearth of analog set-ups in b&m stores, and auditioning carts is even that much more difficult). But as it pertains to your general principle, hear before you buy *and preferably hear in your own system before you buy," I am in 100% agreement. Each one should let their own ears be the primary decider on purchase decisions

[DonBattles]

Julian and Cyril, I understand both of your points and you advise is well received

[DonBattles]

Something else I've been researching, a SUT. And while doing so came across this:

http://www.audioaficionado.org/phono...ansformer.html

[AudioNut]

Originally Posted by cmalak

My logic in suggesting the phono stage as a potential upgrade target first is solely based on my assumption that phono stages embedded in integrated amps will be a "compromised" design in terms of circuit design, parts used, sheilding, shared power supply, etc...so I think I am on safe ground suggesting that there ought to be a sonic improvement going from Don's integrated phono to a stand-alone phono stage.

I do agree 100% with your assumption about the phono stages in MOST integrated amps (or preamps for that matter) would be compromised designs.

True Cyril, But:

I've owned two integrated amps with "built in" phono stages - An Accuphase and a Rowland - that were truly exceptional.

And, I had a Mark Levinson No. 32 Preamp that had a world-class phono stage.

And, I just assumed that the phono stage built into a Luxman, might be better than average.

On the other hand, I now own a McIntosh MA7000 that has a fairly basic phono stage which was easily bettered by a stand-alone unit.

Good discussion!

[DonBattles]

I'm really leaning towards a SUT first which would prove useful with either the Luxman's built in or another brands stand alone phono stage.

[DonBattles]

UPDATE: picked up a Bob's Devices SUT today from a local seller. It's the unit that uses the CineMag 1131 transformers. It really put the Shelter 501 on another level. Midrange it a bit sweeter but the lower end is where things really seemed to improve. The unit was is used to I'm not sure how much different it will get. Anyway it's a welcome addition my analog section.

[greekgod]

DonBattles,

Lucky find!

I have been doing a lot of research into SUTs lately and have narrowed it down to either a Choir Audio SUT-H7 or Bob's Devices 1131(blue). Both units offer tremendous value and can outperform far more expensive units. Real giant killers.

[DonBattles]

Originally Posted by greekgod

DonBattles,

Lucky find!

I have been doing a lot of research into SUTs lately and have narrowed it down to either a Choir Audio SUT-H7 or Bob's Devices 1131(blue). Both units offer tremendous value and can outperform far more expensive units. Real giant killers.

I was also considering the Choir Audio unit but when this Bob's unit came along the decision was and easy one with a substantial savings over a new one. Plus no break in time Bobs also makes a version that mounts and replaces the stock VPI connection box and this is what I thought is get but after thinking it over it limited my resale base with it being specialized for VPI tables. But knowing that I like the performance I might just sell the one I just purchased and go this route.