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Revel Speakers The Science of Sound

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  #51  
Old 05-28-2016, 11:15 AM
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Ok, let's do it here rather than start a potentially inflammatory thread titled "B&W vs. Revel."



My thinking was inspired by your comments in post 47.

I didn't have brand loyalty or preconceived notions in mind when the idea of a new system popped into my head. I just wanted to take advantage of our newly acquired house's dedicated room. My prejudices, if we can call them that, were to stick with solid state electronics and get a rig I could live with for the long term.

In my shopping which was very enjoyable, there were a number of waypoints that made me think "I could be happy with that." Having my work experience, I didn't start out thinking making the decisions would be nearly as perplexing as it turned out to be.

As I did my homework and poured over reviews, I was reminded several times of the research and personnel at Harman with whom I'd worked or been aware of. I'm referring to Floyd Toole, Shawn Olive, Tod Welte and the Revel team (who I don't personally know) all of whom are instrumental in respect to the fundamental philosophy that now guides many of Harman's efforts.

If I had any prejudices, it was to not buy a Harman product since my contract had been terminated by the president of the Pro division in 2010. Still, I felt I shouldn't bite off my nose to spite my face so I decided to give Revel a fair chance along with the others. That was around the same time I discovered my proposed budget was inadequate to the task in 2016 dollars. I allocated more. You know the story.

I decided that the F206 and F208 might suit my criteria and I should seek them out. The dealer who provided this opportunity also carries B&W so I could audition both side by side. The F206 was nice but it didn't meet the full range requirement I had in my head. We moved to the money room where the Revels were represented by F208s and Salons and the range of B&W 800 series were also parked.

F208s were up first, McIntosh driven They were fine but not initially exciting, more like "competent." The Salons were more rousing, still somewhat unassuming, but clean, commanding and in control. I asked to hear the B&W 800D3s. Big sound, crystal clear presentation, wall to wall soundstage, but perhaps more forward and just a bit bright to my ears? Still, I/we were extremely impressed. I wanted them! Yet even as I listened, while the B&Ws seemed very exciting, they did have a certain edge, a brightness, that was not present in the Revels. After some time we (wife was with me) decided we had taken enough of our salesman's time and thanked him for his attention. I went home excited by the B&Ws but still in doubt.

After I got home and started to think about it I thought despite my inclination towards the B&Ws that both Revel models had something I thought worth exploring. Actually, it was what they didn't have. No tilt. No special detail or peaks, no effort to impress, they just were right there. They were satisfying in an understated way (except for very glossy veneer).
I revisited the shop and auditioned the Salon2s/F208s against the B&W (803 and 800s) a second time without my wife. The second listening was revealing. I decided that while the B&Ws were exciting, the Revels might have a balance more to my liking. Demoed with the Mc stuff, they struck a sweet balance, even in the showroom.

The B&Ws are great bold statements and I'm sure I'd love them if they were here, but I like Revel's smoother sound better. They're easy to listen to but not dark or veiled. They are revealing and detailed with good extension. I'm not sure I'd feel the same about the B&Ws. Surprisingly, in this case the American speakers have the smoother voice and the Brits have the excitement. I know from experience that I grow tired of a balance on the lively side, and your comments hinted at that in respect to your ownership experience. Ownership has reinforced my sentiments.

As I said, I wasn't considering Revels when I started out. I was much more inclined to something like Raidho, ProAc, Harbeth, B&W or KEF based on my prior experiences but the Revels won me over. It wasn't immediately obvious and I suspect other people comparison shopping for products at this level might have the same initial responses I did. That is, that the B&Ws are obvious choices. But for me, the Revel's charms grow greatly with familiarity.
Great write up and I couldn't agree more. The Bowers are so iconic and "statement" pieces. You really have to get past the confirmation bias and leave aside cost and brand so these do not skew opinion. Something that is very hard to do.

If you have time go to youtube and search for "Floyde E Toole Sound Reproduction" - amazing video that highlights speaker measurements, blind vs sighted tests and how opinions are skewed (especially by "experts") when they see what they are listening to.

ALSO - on youtube search for John Atkinson loudspeaker measurements - he goes through the process and explains what all the graphs mean. Also, towards the end he is asked what his favorite (or one of his favorite) loudspeakers is... hint ... you have them on order

Enjoy Memorial Day weekend!
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  #52  
Old 05-29-2016, 12:26 AM
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Thanks. I appreciate your mention of the Toole video. I've seen it as well as having attended a meeting at which he gave essentially the same presentation. Anybody with an interest in loudspeaker testing and design who hasn't seen it would gain by watching it. Plus, he's a great presenter.

I'm very excited to get the Salon2s. They shipped yesterday.

By the way, I like watches too. No scotch, but fond of rum. No cigars. Doctor's orders. I miss 'em!
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  #53  
Old 05-29-2016, 01:47 AM
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Pio, thanks too for calling out the Atkinson video. I just watched it beginning to end. Excellent information that demonstrates JA is in command of his craft. Another impressive guy.
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  #54  
Old 05-29-2016, 05:31 PM
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Can someone direct me to the video in question, or just the title? I see a few from Dr Toole.

Nvm. Got it!
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Supporting System: McIntosh MX122 A/V Center; MC205 Amplifier; Bryston 14bSST2 Amplifier; PS Audio P10 Power Reconditioner; Revel Salon 2 Mains; Revel Voice 2 CC; JL Audio f113v2 (2); JL Audio CR-1 Crossover; Focal IC1002 Surrounds

Last edited by scirica; 05-29-2016 at 05:43 PM.
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  #55  
Old 05-29-2016, 07:21 PM
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[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM"]Try this one.[/ame]

Here it is for eveyrbody else. Onel needs to dedicate an hour but he's a dean on the topic of evaluation and testing. Pio's inclusion of John Atkinson's video can be viewed as an adjunct to the Toole video as JA explains objective measurement about as concisely as it can be done.
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  #56  
Old 05-29-2016, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pampero View Post
Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM Here it is for eveyrbody else. Onel needs to dedicate an hour but he's a dean on the topic of evaluation and testing. Pio's inclusion of John Atkinson's video can be viewed as an adjunct to the Toole video as JA explains objective measurement about as concisely as it can be done.
I found it and I am about halfway through. Enjoying the content and delivery so far.
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Digital: SilenZio Gen 3 High Performance Media Server; Esoteric K-03X.
Supporting System: McIntosh MX122 A/V Center; MC205 Amplifier; Bryston 14bSST2 Amplifier; PS Audio P10 Power Reconditioner; Revel Salon 2 Mains; Revel Voice 2 CC; JL Audio f113v2 (2); JL Audio CR-1 Crossover; Focal IC1002 Surrounds
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  #57  
Old 05-31-2016, 07:41 PM
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He's convincing. Also, it's worthwhile to watch J. Atkinson's approach to objective testing. Here's the video Pio mentioned. While reviews of the sonic characteristics of any component ultimately ask us to make a subjective evaluation using our ears, I find JA's objective test results among the most useful artifacts of any reviews. Atkinson's video, which I watched for the first time after Pio mentioned it was about as concise an explanation of FFT as you will find. I thought he did a masterful job of explaining how and why he tests as he does and how he derives his conclusions from the data he generates.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j77VKw9Kx6U"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j77VKw9Kx6U[/ame]

Plus, I like his comments about the Revels
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  #58  
Old 05-31-2016, 08:01 PM
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Perhaps within these fora someone has already published this link but while we're at it I might as well include this link to Harman's "How to Listen" software.

LINK

I've been taking this "course" as an amusement and also to see how my experience correlates with the "tests" in the program. I have found it useful (and sobering) but in my defense, I started listening to the program directly off my computer. That was pointless and my results improved dramatically by using a pair of (ok but not great) headphones.
If you decide to employ the program, the better the resolution of your playback equipment, the better your results will be even if you start out not being particularly adept (or more properly experienced) at picking out specific passbands of the spectrum.
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  #59  
Old 05-31-2016, 08:03 PM
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I'm so glad you liked the videos. I have become a huge fan of Floyd Toole's work, purchased his book "Sound Reproduction - Loudspeakers & Rooms" several years ago and always default to it when in doubt of one thing or the other. You can find the pdf online, it's a must have.

And, since I saw John Atkinson's video I have been going back to old Stereophile mags (my back issues, the one's on my iPad and on stereophile.com) and really understand what I am looking at now. He needs to do a video for Amps and digital equipment!

Again, glad you liked!
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  #60  
Old 06-02-2016, 06:20 PM
Pampero Pampero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pio View Post
I'm so glad you liked the videos. I have become a huge fan of Floyd Toole's work, purchased his book "Sound Reproduction - Loudspeakers & Rooms" several years ago and always default to it when in doubt of one thing or the other. You can find the pdf online, it's a must have.

And, since I saw John Atkinson's video I have been going back to old Stereophile mags (my back issues, the one's on my iPad and on stereophile.com) and really understand what I am looking at now. He needs to do a video for Amps and digital equipment!

Again, glad you liked!
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